Explanations, Apologies, and Hopes

[Skyfire]

This is meant mostly for EEZ and Steel, although Ckret and Saron should probably read it, too, since they read the part of the discussion thread this pertains to. Nothing said here is at all meant to be derogatory.


Okay, you’re probably wondering why exactly I’m continuing this. Well, because now that I understand EEZ’s position maybe a little bit better, I think she and Steel need to understand mine. …Please? That’s fair, right? Yeah, and not only that, but I have some apologies to make. Finally, because I want to ensure that nothing like this will ever happen again. We made mistakes and we need to learn from them, but just locking up the thread won’t exactly help that process. It’s kind of like treating the symptoms and ignoring the disease, or even sort of like running away. I don’t know about anybody else, but I really don’t want anything like this to happen again.

Better settle in or copy all this to MS Word or something – this will take you probably about half an hour to read. Well, depending on how fast you read, of course – but by the time I’m done, I’ll probably have typed out about 10,000 words, and that’s not including all the quotes. O.o Yuuup, that’s about right.

So I’m gonna start this off with an apology, but the main one will come closer to the end:

I’m sorry if I sounded malicious, condescending, mocking, insulting… I did not mean to sound that way. At all. Rude… um, I wasn’t exactly aiming for that, but I guess I can see that in my post, yeah.

I’m sorry, guys. …To everybody, not just EEZ.

All right, I’m going to make an attempt to answer… well, not everything everybody said, but a lot of it. Starting with Mandalore Thrawn’s involvement. Oh, and Steel, I’ll get to your points in the second half of this post.

Okay, before I get started with Thrawn, let me say this much, and it’s something that maybe nobody’s thought of yet: I’ve never said anything like that one post until now. That… doesn’t strike anybody as significant? It should. I mean, just think: in previous posts, I’d been strong on my points, sure, but never said anything like that one post. So why did I do that one post just then? If I’m really as mean as I guess you guys think I am (or thought I was, whatever you want), then why hadn’t you seen more of that throughout my other posts? I was totally clean up until then – the worst anyone could possibly accuse me of was getting angsty, even with some criticism. Did you guys ever really think about the why? …Just… think about it for a bit, okay, please? and I’ll come back to that later.


MANDALORE THRAWN
Yes, he’s my brother.

This is just between Skyfire and myself; this is OUR interaction.

…Not really, EEZ. You see, though I’m Thrawn’s elder by three years, we’re more like twins. We confide in each other, and share almost everything with each other. We bounce around story ideas all the time – usually in the kitchen when he’s washing dishes and I’m drying. And what affects one of us invariably affects the other. He’s followed this part of the thread since I first introduced the cyborg anatomy, he’s listened to me pour out whatever reactions I’ve had – he has every right to say something about it, even to get in-between the two of us. He’s the one who actually lives with me and has to deal with me, y’know. ^^

That's just their opinions; don't attack them.

Thrawn never said anything that could be misconstrued as an attack. He repeatedly said to drop the issue, but that was it.

I just wonder why it was that you had to be dragged into all this.
And yet, if you did this on your own, feeling that it was some sort of brotherly duty on your part, I don't think I can argue with that; I would do the same for my sister, actually.

Well, I didn’t think it was brotherly duty, and he definitely wasn’t “dragged” into this. He read the posts and he had some things to say about it – if he had been a member and seen this happening to someone else, he probably would have done the same thing. …Although I did later find out that his brotherly defensive programming was kicking in.

He just wanted it to stop.

HATE AND MALICE

Steel, I don’t hate you, and I was pretty sure that EEZ wasn’t meaning to be mean or anything. But. Some of the stuff she’s said could be taken that way – yes, even skirted along the lines of what could almost be termed “derogatory” – and I’ll come back to that point later.

But let me reiterate that I never meant to be malicious. And EEZ doesn’t deserve it! You’d have to be a pretty rotten person for me to be “malicious.” Bring somebody rotten on the board, and you’ll see just how nasty I can get, muwahahaha… Why are you all looking at me like that? *cringes* I’m just trying to lighten the mood a little – it needs it!

At any rate, no, I don’t hate or even dislike or resent anybody… do I even hate anybody? Umm, I can think of some categories, but no specific people… My point is, I don’t hate like that. My hate would be reserved for people who really deserve it – you know, criminal kind of people. That might sound… I don’t know, wishy-washy? but it’s true.

EVOLUTION (and religion, too, I guess)

Third, the only reason WHY evolution was brought up was because Skyfire had taken the liberty to slap my virtual tongue--to which is a great insult as she not only felt it was necessary to hit me, but to also silence me and my views. If she had not slapped me, it would have NEVER been brought up ever again.

Oh, EEZ, it was a stupid joke. That’s why I used archaic phraseology – so that you would know that I was being silly. I didn’t think it was a big deal – had someone did that to me, I would have retaliated with a sort of blustering silliness along the lines of “How darest thou attack me, knave? xD” I did feel it necessary to drop the evolution since you were talking about it in correlation to my Christian, creationist works – the point was moot since evolution doesn’t have anything to do with my stuff. And I kept trying afterward to get you to drop it (evolution), but I guess you weren’t getting the message.

And I did apologize for doing it (the slap):
“Okay, okay, so I could resist. (And it wasn’t a beating – it was just a mild slap-slap that couldn’t have possibly actually hurt…) I did mean it in good fun, you know, but… It was wrong of me, and I’m sorry. Would you please forgive me?”

…I did ask for your forgiveness, EEZ. Weeks ago. But you never even acknowledged my apology, let alone said that you forgave me. I didn’t just say it – I meant it. I still mean it.

I have no real say on the evolution/creation issue. I don't think I even mentioned them in my posts at all besides the bread/nutella parallel (and actual bread is quite tasty, but I was talking about sliced bread which is rather dry and needs flavouring). I do believe in evolution, but everyone's entitled to their own beliefs. I just don't think that religion should be dragged into BLoSC, but evolution can simply by taking into account the episode "Devolutionaries"--and this is actually an example of Skyfire skipping something EEZ said. But this doesn't mean that you need to talk about evolution--I just think that it should be taken into account simply because of this fact.

It was actually the one time that I did skip what she said, and I forgot to explain that. I left the evolution/creation stuff out to save it for a new thread – I just forgot to say that. I’m sorry.

I don’t “drag” religion into my fanworks: my faith – because true Christianity is a relationship, not a religion – is a natural part of my work because it is a natural part of me. If that narrows down my audience… well… okay. I already know that I won’t lose the readers who truly love the story, and that the four I know who still stick with love it all the more because there’s faith in it. That is so very special to me – it means more to me than having a big audience. Does that mean that I get preachy? Well, I guess that depends on how sensitive you are to Christian work. I go into a little bit of Bible expository, I guess you might say, every now and then when a character actually reads the Bible. But on the whole, you’d be basically just reading about people who are Christians, and it’s evident in their day-to-day lives. Now, there are some Biblical themes that come out of the woodwork, like trust (in God) and redemption. But those are probably some of the best parts, and some of the most pivotal moments, because that’s when characters make crucial decisions about their lives.

Besides all that, it can be logically argued that evolution itself is a religion, because it is just as much a belief system as anything else. Evolutionist and Creationists look at the exact same evidence and end up with different answers because of their beliefs. Evolutions look for billions of years, and that is exactly what they find; Creationists look for 6,000 years and that is exactly what they find. You will always find what you are looking for. Or, as Aslan in Narnia says, “All get what they truly desire.” Of course, we know that somebody has to be wrong – Evolutionists or Creationists. One or the other has to be misconstruing the evidence. As time goes on, and more evidence is uncovered, it will be interesting to see how the war progresses. Oh, and let me say really quickly that neither Evolution nor Creation can be scientifically proven, because… That’s right! You need to have an observer to observe and record! That’s part of the scientific method!

At any rate, do you mean religion period, or do you mean “real-world religion”? Because there’s still evidence of religion in BLoSC (oddly enough, it’s always tied to XR, lol):
----“The Torque Armada”: XR prays. Now, for the sake of the argument, it really doesn’t matter who he’s praying to – it could be a single Creator, a plethora of deities, or even the Force! But he’s praying.
----“The Return of XL”: “…real friendly. I think he’s a church deacon.” Now, whether you see that as evidence of it being our galaxy or just as the writers trying to make us comfortable with what we know, the fact remains that “church” and “deacon” are still an intrinsic part of religion.
----“The Lightyear Factor”: Commander Nebula says that, wherever Buzz is (thinking that Buzz is dead), he hopes it’s a happier place. That’s referring to some kind of afterlife, which is inherently a religious concept. Plus, XR pulls out bagpipes and plays a song, and – you may not believe this – but it’s actually “Amazing Grace.” …Hey, that song’s been my favorite hymn since I was three – I know it when I hear it, y’know? ;D
----“Devolutionaries”: The Binipinardian monks! xDDD I love those guys.

Anyway, there’ll always be religion, no matter whether we’re talking about the future or another galaxy. It’s an inevitable part of life. *shrugs*

…Okay, so I went into this whole long spiel about evolution and religion that you could probably care less about, but there were some points that I thought needed making, so~


STEEL’S POINTS

((My brother had a post to answer yours, but he couldn’t post it up before the thread was locked. I think you would have been satisfied with his answers, though. ))

I think you are taking this far to personally and are being intentionally spiteful and rude, even downright insulting.

Well, I’ve already said it, but I never meant to be spiteful or insulting. And as far as “taking this far too personally” is concerned – well, I’m addressing that in my next post, but… Was I taking it a bit too personally? Maybe. Far too much? I don’t think so.

But I’ll tell you what. I was feeling far too often that things were falling down around my head. It felt like more and more work was being loaded onto me as I tried to figure this and that out to make my stuff work or to show you guys how it did work, and I’ve already had a lot to deal with in real life, because on top of the usual, there’s been more kitchen work for different reasons and online college and working on getting my book out on the market. I was feeling stressed, inadequate, and inferior, because no matter what help I accepted, what things I said I’d work on or study or think about, what arguments I made that I was pretty doggone sure were valid – it was never good enough. I felt that I was being picked apart and criticized within an inch of my life – does that sound right to you?

As Elizabeth Lane says in the old classic “Christmas in Connecticut”: “I’m tired of being pushed around, tired of being told what to do, tired of dancing to somebody else’s tune! In short – [casual now, shrugs] I’m tired.” …That’s one of the best scenes in the movie, lol.

EEZ is merely giving you constructive criticism

Criticism is merely pointing out a problem, which is what you both did. Now, in quite a few cases, I saw validity to what you both were saying, decided to work on those areas, and told you guys that I would. But never once did I get any suggestions on how I could improve, which is what true constructive criticism is. And I know, because I’ve been working with constructive criticism for the past few years, coming from my cousin, whose sharpness and ideas largely helped bring my original fantasy novel to what it is today. I’m no stranger to criticism, or constructive criticism. I know what constructive criticism like. And I know that is not what I was getting. I needed help and encouragement, not arguments that this-and-this couldn’t possibly work.

and you on the other half are being very condescending to her in return, not to mention mocking.

I’ll reiterate that no mocking was ever intended. EVER. …And I can’t help but feel just a bit hurt that you guys think that I would do that. I’ve never done that to anybody! …Well, nobody real… fictional characters, you know… ahem, moving on.

And I felt condescended to – extremely so, sometimes – by EEZ. In fact, quite a few times, she’s made me feel like a ten-year-old. At least in her last post, she came right out and said that I was being immature this time – of course, I beg to differ, but at least I got a totally open and honest opinion. It’s easier to deal with honesty than politeness – with politeness, you can’t always be sure what a person means or thinks. Even if a person is being rude as well as honest, you still know exactly where he or she stands. Between the two, I guess I vastly prefer honesty, no matter how bad it might sound.

Even so, I didn’t mean at all to sound condescending – I can think of only one point at which I could have sounded like that, but that was sooo not what I was aiming for. I was just trying to get my point across as firmly as possible.

Maybe you can't understand her humour, but she was never being rude or spiteful to you in her posts.

I know she wasn’t. And I really don’t understand her humor, I guess. In fact, I’ve never had so much interaction with someone I haven’t really been able to understand all that much. I mean, I can pretty well predict what she’s gonna say, how she’s gonna react, what she’s gonna think about this or that, but that doesn’t necessitate that I understand it. In fact, I’ve never had so much interaction with someone who’s so completely different from me – which, really, I think, is where a lot of the problem is. And more on that later.

She was just trying to be helpful and point out a few things. She wanted to understand your reasoning behind your ideas, and if there is good reasoning to back your ideas up then I don't see why they can't work out. And ckret in turn pointed out some things that EEZ hadn't seen.

I don’t doubt her good intentions, but everyone knows that sometimes, good intentions aren’t enough. And it didn’t often feel that she was really trying all that much to understand what I was saying – sometimes, maybe, but not much. If I’m misreading that, then that only underscores what I just said: I don’t understand her all that much.

But isn't this the point of laying out your ideas on the table? Having them examined and picked apart to ensure their plausibility? I thought this was what this was all about, and I didn't detect any real animosity in this thread until your posts.

I presented my ideas merely to show you guys what I wanted to do – I was really excited about it all. I actually laid my ideas out to kind of showcase them – not really to have them dissected (although I probably should have known that that’s what was going to happen). And Thrawn’s right: “Yes, that is the point, but it is laid to be picked apart and reassembled, not torn apart and scattered to the four winds.”

You replied that, “It was scattered to the four winds because neither side was willing to back down.” Now, it’s true that neither EEZ nor I were willing to back down – that’s readily apparent. But it was scattered to the four winds because nobody was helping me to actually work on it and improve it. Pointing out problems is almost useless if you don’t have a way to help the person fix those problems. I was not getting that kind of help when I needed it. Had I gotten that, I can assure you this whole mess would never have happened in the first place.

I welcome an examination to make sure that my foundation will hold. I don’t welcome a demolition crew coming in and trying to clear it away for a different foundation, because I know that mine isn’t that bad. Maybe it didn’t seem like a demolition crew to you guys and that wasn’t what you meant, but… it’s about my story, anyway, so maybe you could try to look at it from my angle?

Diplomatic or not, I think there are limits and you just passed yours.

I still don’t think I really passed my limits in my reaction to what I thought was being said. Now, if I misunderstood what was being said, then I’m not sure that my reaction even counts anymore, because it was based upon something that apparently wasn’t strictly real. And at any rate, I wasn’t aiming for any of that negative stuff (malice and so on) – I was aiming for strict honesty. If we can’t handle people who just shoot totally from their heads – yes, even if that includes what we might think is meanness – then we’ve got problems.

I don't particularly care at this point whether you hate me for pointing out the obvious or not, but I don't like it when people treat my friends like garbage, despite the respect I hold for them.

The only “obvious” that I’m seeing here is (a) you’re a loyal friend, and (b) you misread most (if not all) of what I said. So, with all due respect, I don’t really see any “obvious” here the way you’re seeing it – with all the misunderstanding floating around, “obvious” has suddenly gone into the realm of subjectivity.

I never treated EEZ like garbage, although I can think of one or two lines here and there that might make you think that I did. I don’t treat people like garbage. You know, you and EEZ have made some very sweeping judgments about what I said in just one post. That’s a pretty shaky reason to suddenly drop all respect for and friendship with the person who posted, no matter how bad she sounded. Because it was a onetime thing – you’ve never heard her talk like that before, and you have no idea what was going on her life or in her mind at the time.

So… does this really mean that you no longer think of me as a friend? Because… believe it or not, I still think of you and EEZ as my friends, and I still respect you two as much as ever. …You don’t have to say anything about it just yet – just please think about it, okay? …Don’t I sound more like the Sky you know and love (or loved, if you prefer)? Yes, that other post-in-question is still Sky, too, but that was a different side of her that doesn’t surface very often at all, and almost never online.

And I really hope that doesn’t make you lose respect or like for my works, or that you decide not to check out my stuff in the future. You know, the best part of a person can come out in his art. You already know that I’m a good artist, a good writer, and a fair MV-maker. Please don’t let my works suffer for my rash post – please continue to enjoy them! …Once my connection is good again, I actually have a couple new videos to upload! One is a Buzz & Warp vid, kinda for KJ; one is another BLoSC gen Mulan style; the newest is a Buzz & Zurg vid, a “sequel” – if you will – to Steel’s “Playing with the Big Boys.” Can you guess what it is? You guys should love it!

because who really wants to read a huge post filled with quotes in it that only serve to confuse you more than help you

I do. Multiple quotes have never confused me before, and I appreciate that kind point-to-point-ness so that I can see exactly what people think about this and that, and I have closure. Otherwise, how am I to know? I know it can take a long time, and you’ve seen yourselves that sometimes, it takes me days to answer posts because mine are so long, but I want to cover all the bases. I wouldn’t mind having to wait for a reply that’s a bit in coming if it means that all my points receive replies.

And yes, that was the sound of me being snippy because I am the one who started this thread last year in the first place, and I could have never imagined that it would go downhill just when ckret and I had been coming up with such great Zurg theories last night... this morning... never mind.

…I’m sorry that your thread got messed up, Steel – I really am! =(

So I will say right now that I third the closing of this thread and let that be the end of it. Because I actually agree with you; this has gone far too far already. And this is coming from someone who has an open mind and loves reading all sorts of theories and opinions, but cannot bear the stubbornness of some individuals here. (Yes, I am talking about Skyfire and EEZ.)

Hey, I have an open mind – I just don’t like to leave it open enough to let my brains fall out. …That was a joke, and it was a variation of something Saron actually said once in an email. You know, her cute little puns? I thought it was funny. …So yeah, I’m stubborn, and I’m not ashamed of it. I’d rather be stubborn than not be stubborn, if that makes any sense.

I enjoy reading all kinds of theories, too – opinions are a little different, but sometimes, yeah. But I (understandably) don’t appreciate it when those theories/opinions/whatever are trying to tear down what I’ve worked so hard on.

And it takes all kinds of people to make a world – or so I hear. Actually, I never liked that saying, but I guess it’s true. So, Steel, ya just hafta put up with us bullheads! ;D …That was humor, too, just to make sure that everybody understands that.

And yeah, I guess it did go too far. But that was everybody’s fault, not just mine.

I skip over the part about my brother here, because I already addressed it above.

Being spiteful is being malicious, and I detected maliciousness in her posts. That could have been a misreading on my part, just as she on her part misread EEZ's posts, so I guess we're both wrong here.

I guess we are – both wrong and misreading, I mean. *mopes* Gee, how can a couple of people who have so much interaction with each other get it so wrong?

I do not think that EEZ purposefully skipped; she merely condensed for the sake of clarity, or at least that is how I saw it. Now, if Skyfire wanted EEZ to notice some specifics on her posts, she could have pointed them out so EEZ could have examined them one-by-one. But I, for one, find reading long posts riddled with quotes tiring, as opposed to long posts clearly interspersed with points and sections, like some of ckret's in another thread on these forums, the "Is-Zurg-Buzz's-Dad?" debate thread, specifically.

Posts like that one of Ckret’s are great, but all that formatting takes even more time, y’know? But how was I really supposed to point out specifics? I was already quoting EEZ paragraph by paragraph – sometimes even line by line. *shrugs helplessly*

And I don’t find quote-filled posts confusing or tiring – and since the posts were being addressed specifically to me, shouldn’t that count for something?

At any rate, there’s a perfect case-in-point where I said something on a topic, and EEZ replied on the same topic without seeming to have read anything that I said about it, and I’ll get to that later.

And in closing on this point, there were several times in which I added to certain topics, and EEZ continued those topic, but only with what she was saying, and never acknowledging that I had said anything new on the matter at all. I can pull up every single instance and show you (and I probably will in the next post).

And, well, on the humour, that's EEZ for you; it's really easy to pick up once you get to know her. Or that could be just me living in the UK now and picking up on British humour or whatnot, I don't know. xD And perhaps her posts may have looked nicer because they were more condensed. Some of us do not have the time to answer every single point, but I am now making the time, besides my assignments, since you specifically pointed your dissatisfaction at this.

D’aww, Steel, school comes first – you didn’t have to! Although I do sincerely appreciate it. But let me point out that I never have the time to answer every single point – quickly. That’s why it takes me days sometimes to reply – because I don’t have enough time in one day. Trust me, my schedule’s as busy as anyone else’s, just in a different way, and it’s a bit more flexible, but that’s it.

Well, I’ve read quite a bit of British stuff (Tolkien, C. S. Lewis, even some of G. A. Henty), and in 12th grade, my literature study was British… And there are movies like Pride and Prejudice and My Fair Lady, etc… so I know what British humor is like. You really think that EEZ’s humor is like that? Honestly, I’ve never encountered her kind of humor anywhere else. *is baffled* I mean, I’ve laughed before at stuff that she’s said that was obviously funny, but if it’s subtle, then I guess I’m lost. =(

On the helpful bit: fair enough. You take what you want from it and ignore the rest. That is, after all, how humankind works. And the way I see it is that both Skyfire and EEZ need to bend with the wind, but that's what you get when you get two hard-heads together; neither will succumb easily or willingly.

True on that last part, but may I point out, in my defense, that I have bended? I can pull up quotes if you’d like, not only from the Zurg thread but from others, as well.

Yes, Skyfire was overly defensive, and yes, I saw her being condescending and mocking. Here are a few examples:

I’ll address this in my next post. But I never mocked, cross my heart. And I was being defensive, true, but not overly so. So… yeah, I’ll get back to that later. And I’ve already talked about the condescending part, so I won’t repeat myself.

Aw, thank you! …Even after all this?

...Which really drives the nail into the coffin, I'd say. And these are just a few examples. I don't have the patience to go back even further, or to mention more, but her overall tone is scathing and on a personal level, when EEZ never dragged Skyfire into anything, unless I missed something, which you will have to point out for me.

*soulful groan* That was sincere! I even had an XR heart-eyes smile after it, because I was trying to show that I was serious and that I didn’t want what I said to wreck our friendship. I guess I should have said more to make that clearer, so I am very, very sorry. But, Steel? somebody would have to be really sick to say that mockingly with an XR heart-eyes smile at the end.

…I actually can find one or two things that EEZ said that were indeed personal, or sounded like it.

And… well, I did mean to be scathing in some parts, to a certain extent. (Just for the record, I have never said anything like that before in my life.) Did I think, at the time, that EEZ deserved it? …I don’t get that worked-up over something without feeling that that reaction is deserved. Maybe I went about it the wrong way, but I honestly thought it was the only way I was going to really drive my points home and get her to listen to me. Because, sometimes, I honestly feel like I’m talking to a wall – at least I acknowledged what she said, whether or not I agreed with or liked it.

It was scattered to the four winds because neither side was willing to back down. And I guess it's a different point of view thing after all; kind of like the mix-up with ckret and I beforehand (I still love ya, gal xD). You can never really tell someone's tone over the internet. And yes, we all should be careful of referring to someone's beliefs and ideals, but I don't think it is wrong to challenge them. Having studied Paradise Lost, we talked about how having your ideas challenged can help you become stronger after the outcome, and I think this is a nice parallel to take into account here.

I already addressed the “four winds” bit, so I won’t repeat myself. And true, it can indeed be hard to translate tones over the Internet, which is one reason why I like to use smiley faces and little side comments so much – so that, hopefully, my tone and mood come across correctly. And then barring voice tones, I once read (in a fanfic, actually, so I’m not sure if it’s real or not, but I know that the author did TONS of research, so it very well could be) that 60% of communication is non-verbal. Then, I bet voice tones have to be another 10% at least; so when we’re talking over the Internet, we’re down to 30% communication! We’ve lost voice tones, facial expressions, gestures (some people don’t gesture much, but others do, myself included), posture, overall body language…

I totally agree that having your beliefs challenged makes them stronger – it was just a challenge I didn’t want to have to deal with in a topic that was really about what Zurg could be. I even said, at one point, that I thought it might be fun to do a debate down in the Spam section – ‘cause I wanted to keep the thread on-topic as much as possible. …My offer still stands. I’ve even done some research on Creationism and Evolution, and I’ve found some very interesting stuff that I’d like to share.

Why am I offering to start a new debate, considering what happened to the Zurg thread? Well, I think that, after this, we’re all going to be a lot more careful of what we say in the future. I think that we might be able to safely hold a debate – both sides would just have to be careful not to sound too authoritative at the risk of being condescending. What do you think?

Paradise Lost? Ohhh, I envy you! I’ve only ever read the… I think it was the prologue… for school. I want to read the rest! What was it like?

I thought this was a fun place too. And up until this point I have really enjoyed myself here. But no, I did not like Skyfire's tone at all towards EEZ, which was why I took it upon myself to say so in the first place. And heck, you can call me whatever names you want even though I haven't been calling you any... I am still perplexed at how you were dragged into this, anyway.

I’m gonna reiterate that Thrawn was NOT dragged into this. I share just about everything with him – and what I don’t share, he usually finds out, anyway. And he had something to say.

…He didn’t call you any names. O.o Yeah. I just checked over his post, and he really didn’t name-call.

Well, okay, so you didn’t like my tone. In your place, I probably would’ve given a piece of my mind, too, whether I was right or wrong. But I maintain that my reaction was justified in some parts, and in others, based off of misreading, Your Honor! (And the “Your Honor” part was humor, too – just so that’s clear.)

Evolution part here – already addressed above.

But if it's any condolence, I didn't detect poor grammar or bad writing in your post. It was actually pretty well-structured and well-thought of! And I apologize if my post drove you to come here. I guess I did read Sky's post wrong then. But then that means that you read EEZ's wrong as well. So everyone seems to share a portion in the blame here, just like ckret mentioned beforehand.

EVERYBODY IS GUILTY; WE MUST ALL BE SENTENCED TO SPEED TRAP DUTY. *cue groans*

And I never said that I did not like a cyborg!Zurg. I was merely interested in the mechanics and thought process behind it. Maybe it is simply my nature; I question anything and everything. I am a philosopher at heart, after all. But as much as it saddens me that we have reached such a dichotomy of opinions in a thread I really loved and wanted to contribute more to at a later date... this dispute should come to an end, right here and now.

I’s sorry, Steel. If it’s any condolence, I’m 100% positive I never misread your posts, and I’m certain that nothing in them bothered me. Gah, why did I have to post up the stupid anatomy in the first place?? It wasn’t worth it!

I just simply want to point out that you should also see it from where EEZ stands as well as where Skyfire stands. And if I sound angry, or detached, or I don't know how else I might be sounding over the internet, I apologize in advance. I don't mean to sound like this, but I just don't see the logic behind arguing any more. All sides need to admit that they were wrong, and leave this all in the past.

I think that Thrawn was indeed trying to see EEZ’s position, but he just doesn’t know her all that well yet. If he could know her for as long as I have, he’d probably understand her better than I do – he’s good at stuff like that.

And go back to the lovely theories again that are untainted by personal opinions! Like Zurg's troll doll collection: DISCUSS!

WHY IN THE WORLD DOES ZURG KEEP A TROLL DOLL COLLECTION, OF ALL THINGS? WHAT IS IT WITH THIS GUY? WHY MUST HE MAKE INTELLECTUAL LIFE SO DIFFICULT ON US MERE MORTAL FANS?

…Wait a sec! I know who’s really guilty! It’s Zurg himself! He started it in the first place by being so doggone mysterious! xDDD

...And if it's any worth, I think you should join! D: It's always great to find another fellow thinker such as myself! I was rather miffed at the start of this post to be honest, but now that I've blown off all my hot steam I'm ready to put it all to good use!

…Actually, it would be cool if Thrawn did join. WAIT!! OH NO, WHAT AM I SAYING?? IF HE JOINS, I’M DOOMED!! …Hey, that would make it the first sister/brother pair on the fan club, wouldn’t it? Not the first in the fandom, but here on the forum itself… I wonder if we would post on the same threads – since we discuss stuff all the time, it could be redundant, but then again, it might not…

AND HE HAS... um, well, hopefully a Zurgariffic Christmas surprise for us. We'll have to see about that.

[Skyfire]

AND NOW FOR THE SKYFIRE HEARING, IN WHICH SHE LOOKS AT ALL THE THINGS SHE WAS ACCUSED OF, QUOTES HERSELF AND OTHERS, AND PRESENTS HER CASE TO THE MOST HONORABLE JURY.

BAILIFF
“Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God?”

SKYFIRE
“I do.”

BAILIFF
“You may be seated.”

PROSECUTING ATTORNEY
“Miss Skyfire, where were you on the night of the 43rd?”

SKYFIRE
“What does that have to do with this?”

PROSECUTING ATTORNEY
“I DON’T KNOW. ANSWER THE QUESTION.”

SKYFIRE
“STOP YELLING AT ME.”

PROSECUTING ATTORNEY
“STOP YELLING AT ME FOR YELLING AT YOU.”

SKYFIRE
*sighs to the audience* “You just can’t win with these guys.”


DEFENSIVENESS, TAKING THINGS TOO PERSONALLY

Was I being defensive? Well yeah – if you think that you’re being fired at, you’re gonna duck, dodge, and fire back, y’know? Without cause? Well, depends on how you interpret what was being said to me.

Now, if I felt that my work (my concepts and my adapted concepts fit into that category) was being challenged wrongly, then no, I wasn’t being too defensive. If I misinterpreted what was being said, that doesn’t make much difference. I was replying to what I thought was being said. As I said above, if I misunderstood what was being said, then I’m not sure that my reaction even counts anymore, because it was based upon something that apparently wasn’t strictly real!

I don’t know about anyone else here, but I am a writer in the fullest sense of the word. It’s in my very blood – it’s as essential to me as the very oxygen I breathe! And when I write, a piece of me goes into my work. I am a part of it, and it is a part of me. You’ve probably heard of people who are like this – well, I’m one of them. And let me tell you guys, I bet that not a one of them would have reacted all that much differently.

So actually, every criticism – you can call it negative or positive, doesn’t matter – that was leveled at my stuff was very much leveled at me. It was personal.

Not only that, but… has anything like this ever happened to you, guys? You’ve probably heard the saying, “You don’t have to be hit with a brick to know that it hurts, but you have to be hit with a brick to know how it hurts?” …Be really honest with yourselves, and try to figure out how you would have felt, how you would have reacted. Just a thought.

I recently got a PM from Saron (luv ya, sweetheart! <3 because, yes, she is a sweetheart and we all know it), and she gave me a nicely neutral reply to That Thread. She saw that both sides were at fault; more than that, she didn’t once say anything about me being malicious or anything like that. Instead, she recognized that That Post was more of a – to use her exact words – “catharsis of emotion.” She understood that I was blowing steam. It’s like, well – Steel, you know EEZ much better than I do. In that same way, Saron knows me better than just about any other fan does, except KJ… eh, maybe Kila and BG, too.

MALICIOUS, SPITEFUL

Let me reiterate that I never meant to be either. Thrawn knows this, too, because he knows exactly how I can be malicious and spiteful. Let me rephrase that: he knows exactly how I do it, and what I said isn’t it. If you don’t trust me, trust him. He knows what he’s talking about. Yeah, I can be nasty – as can we all – but nasty t’weren’t what I was aiming for.

Plus, there’s a logical problem with that, something that just doesn’t add up. If I were trying to mock and be malicious and all that, a negative tone would have held throughout the entire post. Instead, That Post was interspersed with completely normal replies. If you can’t recall any, just go back and look through it – you’ll see what I’m talking about.

ME AND EEZ (yes, that was meant to rhyme ;D)

(…EEZ, please listen to me here, and don’t just ignore it or read it while being mad at me or anything like that. I want you to understand. Please.)

Before I go back through my post and quote EVERYTHING that could be misconstrued as such, let me first take you through what EEZ said that kinda pushed me over the edge – whether she meant to or not:

1.

First off, if they used Terillium from Star Trek that's copyright and we all know Disney is a master at dodging lawyers.

Okay, it might seem petty to you, but I’ve heard about the Disney/lawyers thing before from EEZ, and only from her. She’s the only source I’ve ever heard this from. The little assumption that everybody knows that Disney is apparently good at dodging lawyers… mildly drove me crazy. Why would they be dodging lawyers in the first place?

…You know, it’s these little goofy things that build up and make a volcano before you know it, and then you’re left to wonder just why it exploded in the first place. =(
2.

Well, you could have always chosen a name outside the human paradigm. [Skyfire cuts through some stuff here…] Now, I'm not saying you have to do this, but I'm just pointing out that you don't have to be constricted by mere terrestrial means.

I had already explained before that I had indeed tried to come up with a name: “On my own, I really couldn’t come up with a name for Zurg (though I’m no stranger to name-making).” So why did she continue to say that I could have made an extraterrestrial name? I’d already said that I’d tried and couldn’t do it. O.o?
3.

If you took an anthropology or even a history class, you would come across hominids and the early Homo ancestors.

I haven’t even answered this one yet, but reading it for the first time, I was like, “Umm, excuse me? I did have history classes all throughout my schooling, and I’ve mentioned several times that I had biology in tenth grade.” Well, I did come across hominids and supposed human ancestors – all in Christian, creationist textbooks. Did you know that every “human ancestor” that has been discovered has later been either revealed to be a hoax or proven to be 100% animal with no trace of human whatsoever? Don’t even take my word for it – look it up online. And if you want some links, I can give them to you. Oh, and did you know that it’s also been scientifically proven that we’re closer to CHICKENS in genetics, rather than apes? …Which… is pretty funny, lol.

Anyway, my point on this one is that it sounded like she was thinking that my education was lacking, even though the classes she mentioned are necessary to graduate from high school, which is what I did a year and a half ago. O.o?
4.

AND! That's a racist comment, you know, saying when can an insectoid race be advanced.

…All right, was she being serious here, or was she being kind of funny? Because I, uh… took that as serious. O.o Was I wrong to? *is now confused* I also took it that she had misread what I’d said: “‘Click their sensory organs’? Umm, like insectoid antennae? Ookaaaaaay, since when could an insectoid race be considered an advanced race aside from technology? O.o”

What I meant was that I was confused at how another race could be more advanced than mankind just by being insectoid. …’Cause… what’s that got to do with anything? If we really had evolved, what is it that insectoid beings have that we don’t that could possibly make them any more sentient? And if we were all created, well, then it wouldn’t even matter, ‘cause we would be created equal! =D
5.

And as a veteran who has stayed and lurked within this fandom ever since this show's beginning, I can say with a lot of authority that it needs a bit of sprucing up.

…That… kinda irked me – ironically, though, it was one of the things I responded calmly to in That Post. It’s not the first time she’s said something like that, and… I don’t know, it sounds a little, um, demeaning, I guess, to the other fans. We can’t help writing what we want to write, and if there are several little bunches of people who like to write about the same things – well, we can’t really help that, either. You know what I mean?
6.

There's such a thing as Google and if you know the right words to search for, you can learn a whole lot of things outside a classroom. It's never good to limit yourself in a tiny box if you have tools to break free right there.

…I thought I’d shown in the past that I can be creative and resourceful, that I don’t limit myself. It felt a bit condescending and demeaning.

…Oh, and I use Google every day just to get here. Why I don’t just save the link to the homepage, I will never know. *shakes head at self* …Oh, you know what, I think I just remembered why: I don’t want the link to get lost amidst the tons of stuff I have on my flash-drive (1 GB, FTW!). xD
7.

My own, unique style with elements that are either common or of my own philosophy.

Okay, so she probably was just emphasizing the word “unique” period; but at the time, that emphasis felt a little bit like a slap in the face, because I wasn’t being strictly unique.

…Actually, I could argue that it takes even more talent to successfully pull off a story that utilizes tons of different elements from lots of different places – to put all those different elements together, make them work, and make them work perfectly successfully – than simply making everything up on your own. I enjoy doing all that piecing-together, and I’m proud that I can do it. And if I can do it successfully in For Good… I think I have got something really amazing.
8.

Just know that everyone as their opinion and views and that they're not meant to be personal, etc etc. Most of the time I'd imagine they're trying to help you and some of the time, well, they're probably wanting to bash their skulls in and knock themselves out. It just depends on the person.

Dealing with criticism is okay, and you'll hear it from more than just your family, trust me. XD

…Pretend that that right there is aimed at you, and read it again. Good-intentioned, I guess, but rather condescending in tone. It seriously sounded to me like EEZ was talking down to me, patronizing me. Now, whether she meant it or not, that’s how I read it.

In my response to that, my first words were, “Yes, Mother.” She was sounding too parental – and I can take parental, but from my parents only. And that’s just human nature. Not only that, but quite a few times, it sounds to me like she thinks that I don’t know much at all. Honestly, how would you take that? It was not really any of her business, because I hadn’t reacted negatively to her criticism at that point in time.

Not only that, but it was also irritating because – from my point of view – it looked like the pot calling the kettle black. I can name a couple of times when EEZ herself hasn’t reacted to criticism so well, either. To pull up a couple quick examples:
----Her one-shot story about Warp. I really liked it, and I told her that. I also said that I felt that maybe he was just a bit off, but that was it. (I should have explained exactly which part I felt was off, I guess, and I’m sorry for not doing that.) But she retaliated with what sounded like a pretty defensive spiel in response to my little comment. And I was like, “Oh. Okaaay…” *shrugs*
----The “Where is Earth?” thread.
--------I did call her ma’am, but I meant absolutely nothing bad by it – pfft, I call Saron ma’am sometimes, and we’re best pals! It was more… mm, respectful, I guess.
--------Anyway, EEZ said, “So Sky, your indisputable proof has met a wall: mine. XD” *raises eyebrow* I don’t know about anyone else, but the tone there doesn’t exactly sound nice.
--------So I replied to that: “*sighs* Ma’am, you have not even seen most of my proof, so I will thank you to keep such comments to yourself until you have seen it. Not to mention the fact that you don’t even have real proof – only conjectures.”
--------Also, one of the things I said before I dived into the BLoSC-as-Milky Way issue was this: “Before I dive into all the observations I have made, though, let me address some things that I’ve seen that appear to be rather weak arguments:”
--------She replied: “And I will tell you in all due respect, Ma'am, that my proof rests in reality and the relevance of an Earth audience; please do not demean it and assume it is mere conjectures. I took the time to call yours proof--as you had stated it to be--even when I didn't agree, so the respect should be reciprocated.
Who wrote this show? Humans. From Earth. Who's watching this show? Humans. From Earth.
I would appreciate that we kept this at a civil and decent tone as disagreements do not have to be uncomfortable and irritating. Also, please do not call me "Ma'am". I prefer EEZ, my name, just like anyone else--and just as you probably prefer to be called Skyfire.
And please refrain from calling other arguments weak. They are simply arguments and each one is to be respected as well as their individuals. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and this just a debate. We will never know the real answer between fans.
So please, do NOT let this fall into a passionate mud-slinging fest.”
--------Whoa, whoa, whoa – hold the phone! Passionate mud-slinging?? Where did I mud-sling? Where did I sound passionate?? Reading that for the first time, I was like “wooow… defensive much?” Eep! O.O
--------If you’ll look through the post that comprised my essay on the issue, I held a very light (though sometimes solemn), decent, and civil tone throughout the whole thing! I never once mud-slung or insulted anybody! Now, I did say that the arguments I’d seen against BLoSC-as-Milky Way appeared to be rather weak, and I believe that what made them weak was that they weren’t thought out all the way through to conclusion – there were holes in the logic that I pointed out (criticism?), and I never once demeaned anyone while doing it. I also said what EEZ had to say was conjectural, but that is not an insult – I meant it as a matter-of-fact. It’s true. I don’t know if anyone else here has taken logic classes, but I took a class once in high school. Unfortunately, I can’t remember a lot of it, but I still remember enough about the difference between conjectures and facts. You see, what makes her theory conjectural is that she has only one fact from the series – the name “Earth” is never mentioned. The rest of her theory was speculation, because it had no actual backup in the source itself – and I’m not even saying that it’s wrong; I’m just stating facts. …I wouldn’t have presumed to call my own theory proof had I not been 100% certain of what is said and used in the series. When I began, I was pretty sure that BLoSC takes place in a futuristic Milky Way, but I wasn’t going to say for sure anymore until I got the facts from the show itself – and I did. I started with a bias, sure – so does everybody – but I wouldn’t have said that that bias was canon unless I got all the basis for it from canon. Am I saying that I’m right and EEZ is wrong? Not exactly, and I guess I leave it up to you to decide for yourself what you think about our theories.

Sooo… I didn’t exactly appreciate getting advice on criticism from another person who has problems with it just like I do. If she’d said something like, “You know, I have the same problem myself, so I know where you’re coming from” – that would’ve been different. But she didn’t. *shrugs*
9.

No matter what people, there are always conflicts within themselves as a society. Always.

Again, it’s sounding to me like she’s thinking that I don’t know that much, and she still didn’t even know all that much about my storyline. I don’t even know how much of my stuff she’s even read in the first place, and even if she’d read everything, there’s sooo much more to it that’s still just in my head and hasn’t made it either to paper, Microsoft Word, or FF.net. My point is that she really doesn’t know me that well – granted, I guess I don’t her that well, either, but…
10.

But why? Is it necessary? Why enhance something that's not even broken? I can only think of biological weapons (AKA: super soldiers). Why improve something out of the goodwill of your heart? That's just.....silly! XD

I was explaining myself into the ground trying to answer all her questions, and when I thought I’d finally answered them, she asked the same ones over again! If life was a cartoon, that would be a cue for me to collapse (comically, of course) from exhaustion!

And the “Why improve something out of the goodwill of your heart? That's just.....silly! XD” part, well… I have to admit, that did made me a little angry and upset. Because I know so many real life stories, past and present, in which people sacrifice so much of themselves – sometimes, even their very lives – to help, or “improve”, others. One of my favorite stories (I say “story” because it’s both a book and a TV series) is about a girl my age who, in 1912, went to the backwoods of the Great Smokies to teach children, and eleven incredible months of her life there. And while the story is written fictitiously, about 90% of it really happened, and that girl was real, the mother of the woman who wrote the book. It’s a wonderful, touching – and several times, heartrending – story, and it’s about these people who were reaching out to help the inhabitants of this backwoods community.

Anyway, about what EEZ said… as a statement, it felt rather callous.
11.

And as for sentients beyond humans: are they non-human, Sky? Do they have technology better than Earth? If yes to both, they're beyond that of humans.

And that one was just plain irritating. Like, what, just because another sentient race isn’t human, that automatically makes them more sentient? O.O Whoa, whoa, wait a minute – how does that work? And how does having better science (technology) make them more sentient? Isn’t sentience of the soul and spirit? What does science have to do with either?

It was a confusing couple of lines that didn’t make any sense whatsoever.
12.

And that's great that you're a strong Christian; not saying that's bad. But I do disagree about being created in six days. The Earth is proven to be 4.5 billion years old or abouts there. Does that sound like six days to you. It sure doesn't to me.

This is another one that I haven’t answered yet, and that “does that sound like six days to you, it sure doesn’t to me” did indeed sound condescending. Not only that, but I can argue right back that it’s been proven that the Earth is indeed no older than 12,000 years old (which is twice as old as what a lot of conservative Creationists believe, but there’s also the time-gap theory, so I’m not excluding the possibility that the Earth is 12,000 years old). And I can back my claim up just as well as she can back up hers – and right now, they’re just claims. Both the evolution and creation theories have their problems that are tough to explain – now, from what I’ve read, evolution has more problems, but then, that’s what I’ve read, and I sure haven’t read all that there is to read on the issue. On the same token, I have indeed read a lot.
13.

And I am not afraid to say that I will never incorporate my religion into any work I write simply because....I don't need to. I'm happy with it just in my little sphere but when I want to write for a general audience that could consist of a plethora of religions, I don't put any views regarding theology since not everyone agrees.

Now, I'm not saying you should stop doing what you love but I'm just pointing out that not everyone thinks like you, and not everyone thinks like me.

Again, haven’t addressed yet. But that first line sounded like another slap – it sounded almost like a holier than thou kind of thing (Sky needs to, but EEZ doesn’t have that need) – that was just softened by that last line.
14.

Also, I'd have to disagree and say that I think there is a race of aliens out there more superior to humans cause, let's face it, humans are pretty weak as far as a race goes. Oh well.

Ehh, it kind of annoyed me. I think that humans as a race are pretty sinful, but weak…? If there are other races out there, I really doubt that they’ve produced people any better than our own great figures.

King Alfred of England, Leif Erikson, Eleanor of Aquitaine, William Wallace, William Tell, Christopher Columbus, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Galileo, Sir Isaac Newton, Sir Francis Bacon, Prince William of Orange, Ludwig von Beethoven, William Blackstone, William Wilberforce, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Paul Revere, Samuel and John Adams, Nathan Hale, James and Dolly Madison, Jane Austen, Sir Walter Scott, Lewis and Clark and Sacagawea, Napoleon Bonaparte, Robert Burns, Lord Tennyson, Queen Victoria and Prince Albert, Florence Nightingale, Samuel Morse, Robert E. Lee, Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson, General Longstreet (I forget his given name), Joshua Laurence Chamberlain (of the 20th Maine), David Livingstone, Amy Carmichael, G. K. Chesterton, Booker T. Washington, George Washington Carver, Alexander Graham Bell, Thomas Edison, Charles Loring Brace (founder of the Orphan Train), Laura Ingalls Wilder, Pierre and Marie Curry, Henry Ford, Wilbur and Orville Wright, Baron von Richtofen (the Red Baron, and I’m sure I’m misspelling the name), Amelia Earhart, Albert Einstein, Werner von Braun, Gladys Alward, Douglas MacArthur, Walt Disney, J. R. R. Tolkien, C. S. Lewis, Jim Elliot & Nate Saint & comrades, Martin Luther King Jr., Neil Armstrong & comrades…

And so many more whose names I can’t remember, and even more that I don’t even know. The list goes on and on! There are even entire groups of people who shine out for different reasons, but I hesitate to name them for fear of being accused of bias. At any rate, all these persons had their faults and some more than others, but every single one of them had at least one of the following characteristics: vision, dedication, passion, perseverance, courage, compassion, brilliance, talent, love…

Now, overall, I do have to say that people in general tend to be stupid. xDDD Sorry, I know that sounds really bad, but… it’s true – that’s what I’ve observed. And yet just because that’s the norm, doesn’t even mean that a lot of people follow it. Look at us~! …Anyway, yeah: mankind as whole is not good, but that doesn’t mean that it is weak. If there are alien races out there, I doubt they’d be any better than us, unless they were more or less perfect.
15.

Again, I go down to the consequences of a full-body cyborg. Just like Flint, what makes you think that organics, in all their fleshy glory, would actually allow a cyborg full rights. Honestly. What do humans do right now? They display high emotions to those different from them. So, if we hypothesized for one moment, what if all the other races in the galaxy displayed the same caution. So yes, I really think they'd be persecuted just like witches and freaks by some factions.

First off, it sounds frighteningly… extreme. I was like, “what the world??”

Secondly, this is my case-in-point of a time when her post really did totally ignore what I said in response to something she’d said before. Here’s what that earlier post of hers said: “Well...have you ever noticed that we have never seen a full body cyborg? Don't you wonder what the consequences are if there? We had Flint, who was an android, and even he was mistreated simply because he wasn't an organic. What do you think will happen if a full body cyborg is found out? I daresay they'd be mocked, tormented, persecuted and even outlawed as deemed by galactic policy!”

In my next post, I discussed Flint and how I thought that full-bodied cyborgs could indeed be accepted by the galaxy:
----“No, Flint was “mistreated” because the whole reason for his existence was to work. His manufacturers should have created a more mindless bot, instead of an android – androids don’t belong in that kind of 24-hour work because they’re too close to organics. Actually, I think (and I’m not alone in this) that Flint also exaggerated the facts in his mind – the same way a kid’s mind exaggerates his parents’ “unfairness” when he’s been punished. He was a machine, and his owners missed the fact that he had also gained a soul.”
----My response to the criticism of full-bodied cyborgs was long and specific history for my story, so I won’t bore you with all the details – just give you a couple quick highlights:
--------“It was a medical breakthrough.”
--------“It’s pointless to criticize this new movement in the medical field. We are doing things that have never been done before, and we are doing Good. You don’t stop people from donating food or money to charity. Don’t try to stop us from donating hope to our patients.”
----“Eventually, criticism died away: half because the original critics themselves died, and no one really cared to take their place. The next generation had grown up with full-bodied cyborgs as a reality.”

I still think that those responses countered her arguments about Flint and the full-bodied cyborgs very well. Can you imagine my shock when she used the exact same arguments in her next couple of posts? It was as if she’d never even read that part of my post at all! Criticizing is one thing – ignoring is another. Especially when I spend hours and hours and hours working out all this stuff in my head, and spend hours yet again typing it all up! (And yes, it does mess with my schedule – which shows you just how much I dedicate myself to my work and to this forum.)
16.

I'm sorry but I just can't believe that an entire GALAXY would accept a new race with open arms and actually ALLOW this race to tamper with their own citizens. What. You don't mean to tell me that these Zetas don't have a dark, ulterior motive? That they're really doing this from the kindess of their alien hearts?

Well, actually, that last bit is exactly what I’d said in my previous post, just not quite so concisely. Just read what that surgeon said above – and there was a lot more in that vein.

Not only that, but those two questions sounded rather racist – and very, very cynical. It was as if she was canceling out any possibility that there could be good people in the Zeta race (my invention, for anyone reading this who doesn’t know). It sounded as if she was saying, “They’re a strange alien race no one has heard from before, so they have to be bad.” What the world??

I was definitely more than a little put-off. I was explaining myself into the ground that this was supposed to be a medical advance – and medical advances are made for the good of people… And instead, it seemed that those concepts were being ridiculed – yes, ridiculed – no matter how much more thought I put into them, no matter how much more life I gave them, no matter how much more I posted about them online. I was trying to make it clear that the Zetas were just people, no better and no worse than anyone else. They have their good guys and their bad guys – and the bad guys want to rule, and the good guys want to help. Just like any other race, fictional or real. …And it seemed that EEZ just wasn’t listening.

She was also assuming that the rest of the galaxy had never heard from the Zetas before, when I had already implied that the Zetas were a part of galactic mainstream culture – even assumed that, in my own little history of the galaxy, there was a galactic government at the time. …Both assumptions were waaay off.

In conclusion: criticizing = a 50/50 thing with me (depends on mood, I guess, though I’m getting better), condescending = do not want, ignoring = drives me up the wall.
17.

And your brother's counter-point has no....merit. How is that good? XD

NO ONE SAYS THAT ABOUT MY BROTHER AND GETS AWAY WITH IT. …I was kidding, I was kidding! But that did provoke not only irritation but also the sisterly-protection programming – something along the lines of, “Only I can say negative stuff about my brother and nobody else.” ;D Thrawn had a very good point that I included one of my posts, and she seemed to just kind of laugh at it.
18.

And they better need other race's opinions. Ignoring other races leads to war and if there's a higher race out there, guess what. You better think of something fast and get the GA to help you out cause that other race is gonna wipe the Cosmos with you.

…Again with the “higher race” thing. I want to say with Mira, “Just so you know, this lesser beings stuff is growing old really fast.” Oh, and “Stop. Calling. Us. Lesser. BEINGS!” (A Zoo Out There) That episode keeps running through my head when I see this stuff about one race being “higher” than another.

At any rate, I was pretty sure that, by that point, I’d already explained that the Zetas didn’t need anyone else to live, grow, and fight:
----“The Zeta Empire has existed outside galactic government for five hundred years, and was still highly sovereign for hundreds of years before that. They’re independent; they’re self-sufficient. They don’t need other races; they don’t need other races opinions.”
----“And if other races would get nasty about cyberization, all the Zetas have to do is highly cyberize their military and go beat those races to a pulp. And they can do it, ‘cause they’d definitely have the advantage. They’d be stronger, faster, tougher, and quicker-thinking as a whole. So who really cares? It doesn’t really matter what other people think. If you’re better, you’re better – end of story.”

…Again, it really looked as if she wasn’t listening.
19.

And if the Zetas are superior, they can go conquer the galaxy! What kind of power house doesn't wish to destroy things!? Sure, the Rhizomians are peaceful but they're probably not the most advanced of the GA races. Sorry if I'm cynical, but....this is pretty idealistic and not realistic.

She didn’t know the whole story. I’d only given her part of it, and to tell you the truth, even I’m still learning the story, though I do know a lot of it. But she was judging before she’d gotten all the facts, as well as discounting the fact that there really can be good people in high places, and there can be good superpowers.

Actually, those comments make me think that she hasn’t read much of my stuff at all, because if she had, she’d know that I’m always striving for realism and, yes, even darker and hardcore stuff… Because I want my work to be believable and realistic and alive, and I want my audience to believe in these characters and empathize with them…

[Skyfire]

THE SKYFIRE HEARING CONTINUES…

We’re getting closer to the end, guys. Just bear with me, okay? Please?

INEVITABLE

Would you believe it if I said that I actually saw something like this coming? Well, yeah. EEZ and I are really, really different, and one of the very few things we actually have in common is, unfortunately, stubbornness – of the bullheaded variety. ;D We argue about just about everything, no joke. So it wasn’t too hard to figure out that it was going to come to a head someday, somehow. …But don’t it just figure that I would be the one to “lose it”? *sighs*

I can even quote other times in past threads in which I felt that EEZ was patronizing me, and other posts in just the Zurg thread, but I’m done quoting stuff that isn’t strictly part of the case. But the point is, I’ve felt quite a few times before even the whole cyborg!Zurg thing got pulled up again that EEZ was patronizing me. Now, maybe/probably I was misreading it, but golly, a person can only take so much, even in misreading, you know? Whether it’s you or me or anyone else out there…

With some people, it’s just their nature to kind of snap, or lash out, or whatever – especially if the person is passionate. And as George Banks says in Father of the Bride: “Passionate people tend to overreact. …But with this passion comes great spirit and individuality…” That’s what I am, and I have all the strengths and weakness that go with the description. Not only that, but I’ve got Scotch-Irish/German temper on one side of my family, and Spanish on the other! Do you have any idea what a volatile mix that makes? …I guess what I’m trying to say is that you can’t stop or blame me for being me, y’know? It’s not like I’m alone in my personality traits – I have good company.

EEZ’S POINTS

the level of unacceptable RAEG

…Um… *goes to look up the word rage* 1. Fierce or violent anger. 2. Fit of this. …The Oxford Desk Dictionary and Thesaurus, American Edition, 1997

Fierce or violent anger… Was I a little angry in That Post? Sure – I won’t deny it. Fiercely or violently so, though? …No, absolutely not. O.O I don’t… I’m not sure that I even have it in me to rage!

And… unacceptable… So… we can’t take somebody venting a lot of steam, even if it’s in a burst? No matter how bad it might sound? That’s… not good.

Second off, I still have respect for Skyfire's work even after all the mud being slung (although her last post is making me rethink) ; I just want to know how things work, how it fits, and if there are any cracks in the airlock sealant. I was not being rude, I held a civil tone through ALL of it, and I most certainly did not mock her and she did me. I didn't call her mother, I didn't tell her to stop using words, and I never lost my cool. Yes, my humour is strange, but no, I do not insult or attack people as obvious and immature as she did.

Um, weeell… sometimes, it sure didn’t look like you were “just wanting to know.” Sometimes, it looked like you didn’t at all like what I had, and you wanted me to just scrap it and start over. Actually, you more or less said so more than once – about scrapping and starting over, that is, not disliking.

Again, I did NOT mock you. I don’t mock people.

I never told you to stop using words; every time I wanted to you to drop something, I did use question marks. I asked.

You never lost your cool… well, you’ve got a different personality type. We’re both extreeemly stubborn, but we still have different personalities.

Having a civil tone doesn’t necessitate that you won’t sound… not so good. (Great, I just broke a cardinal rule of grammar – multiple negatives. *rolls eyes at self*) But really, it’s entirely possible to have a completely civil tone and yet say something that can sound bad.

And I think that you said all that because you were hurting – and I really hope that you don’t still mean it. Because I didn’t insult you or attack you – there are one or two times where I can see how you’d think that – but I didn’t, honest.

And I didn’t type out That Post in a fit of anger or immaturity. It took me a few days to type it out completely – Time itself provided a buffer to ensure that I could look over my post and make sure that I was saying what I wanted to say and not be “immature” about it. And adults do speak that way, sometimes, and it will be anything but immature.

Sure, I won't lie: I was perplexed at times, and sometimes irritated, but I did not drag my real life issues into this as this is a Zurg Thread about his origins. My woes have no common place here.

Well… yeah. I mean, you weren’t the one going out on a limb here, and it wasn’t your stuff that was dragged into the cutting room. So… there would be no reason for you to have any “woes” in the first place.

Third, the only reason WHY evolution was brought up was because Skyfire had taken the liberty to slap my virtual tongue--to which is a great insult as she not only felt it was necessary to hit me, but to also silence me and my views. If she had not slapped me, it would have NEVER been brought up ever again.

Well, I addressed this before, but, umm… Are you sure about that? Really, really sure? I mean, you mentioned it in the first place – I couldn’t have “slapped” you for something you’d never said. So… I don’t know, I think it could have come up again.

At any rate, the “slap” bit was a joke, and I guess it was a stupid one! *is distressed* How was I supposed to know that you’d take it as an insult? I was being silly about it the whole way through!

Fourth, don't attack Steel. This is just between Skyfire and myself; this is OUR interaction. If Steel wants to say something she finds irksome then she has an opinion just as you do, Thrawn, and the same with Ckret. That's just their opinions; don't attack them.

Well, briefly, let me repeat that Thrawn definitely never attacked anybody. …And he never even mentioned Ckret. O.o?

Fifth and finally, this thread has gotten too out of hand--even for my tastes. This needs to be dropped and locked by an King of Town because nothing good is coming out of it real fast. I'll admit it wasn't handled well by either side but it is time to draw the curtain to a close.

Hmm… I… don’t think that it should have been locked. If it had been left open, I would have posted all this there, and I wouldn’t have had to start a whole new thread. Who knows? It might have even still been salvaged. Locking it didn’t actually solve anything: the issues remained unresolved. So if I hadn’t started this thread, I’d be feeling ever after that I was walking around with a scarlet “A” on my chest (Nathaniel Hawthorne’s The Scarlet Letter, and a real-life practice a couple of centuries ago). I don’t want to carry that stigma.

QUOTING MYSELF

All right, I’m finally going to go back through my post and quote EVERYTHING that could be misconstrued. Most of them are numbered, too, and the numbers correspond to the EEZ quotes in the previous post. This way, you can kind of cross-reference conveniently!

…I’m not diplomatic in this post. At all. A person can only take so much, and if somebody doesn’t like it, well, boo-hoo. At this point, I really don’t care, and just about nothing anyone says can make me care. I’m shooting straight from my head this time, all the way.

I don’t know that that could be misconstrued, but I included it anyway. I was simply explaining here that I was going to be bluntly honest. …Well, I was being sarcastic a bit, too, but… so what?
1a.

Oh, and we ALL know that “Disney is a master at dodging lawyers”? …Forgive me if I didn’t even know this.

Irritation, not malice. It just annoys me when somebody assumes that a certain fact is common knowledge, especially if I didn’t know it beforehand. Like I said before, “The little assumption that everybody knows that Disney is apparently good at dodging lawyers… mildly drove me crazy.”
1b.

Did that sound irritated to anybody? Oh! Maybe just a little bit, because maybe I’m tired of EEZ not listening to me! I made several points that your posts never even acknowledged, let alone addressed!

Here, I was being a bit sarcastic, and I’m not afraid or even ashamed to admit it. Sarcasm is not necessarily a fault, not even the way I was using it here. And come on, everybody gets sarcastic now and then. I’ve learned to deal with it – and much heavier sarcasm than I’ve used here.
2a.

See? You’re not listening. I specifically said THIS:
On my own, I really couldn’t come up with a name for Zurg (though I’m no stranger to name-making)

I TRIED ALREADY, DOGGONE IT. I COULDN’T DO IT.

Again, irritation. And I think I’ve properly addressed the “not-listening” issue.
2b.

Oh, and I don’t even want to hear about choosing one real-life language over all the rest.

Preclusion of a messy discussion that I just didn’t want to get into.
5.

*shrugs and sighs* I can’t say that I really agree… but whatever. At least be grateful that we have as much variety as we do, ‘cause it could be worse.

I was agreeing to disagree. I really don’t think that this one could possibly be misconstrued, but in that event… *shrugs innocently*
6.

I don’t limit myself, thank you very much – I’m good at coming up with ideas on how to do what I want to do. And I don’t mean a course course – I mean spending a good bit of time brushing up on things.

Plus, if you’ll recall, my online time is a bit LIMITED right now? It’s all I can do to keep up with this forum nowadays!

I simply said “thank you very much” – I don’t think I really meant anything by it. It’s just a phrase that’s a part of my vocabulary.

And I was reminding EEZ that I can’t spend much time online anymore.

Not only that, but as I said before, I felt that what she’d said was rather condescending and demeaning.

Will you quit with the Ohio business? I don’t live in Ohio, I’ve never even been to Ohio! BG and SLWatson live in Ohio, not I, and – with all due respect to the wonderful women – if they want to broadcast their location to the world, that’s their business. I, on the other hand, do NOT want my own location to be public knowledge in a place that anyone in the world with Internet can access! So don’t even try to figure out where I live!

Internet security is something that’s been hammered into me by my dad, who WAS Internet security in his last job. That includes sticking to sites that I know and NOT giving away my name and location. Just you mentioning where you thought I live scared me – just the idea of the possibility that my location could be open knowledge scared me.

I was much less irritated, and much more scared.

And more than that, it’s just nobody’s business where I live, period. Now, a few fans know what time zone I live in, for quicker communications and roleplay, but that’s as far as it goes, and I don’t want anyone to try to figure it out.

I know, I know, just chill. I was just saying that if you want to criticize somebody for adding hardcore stuff to their BLoSC storyline, you’d better be careful how you word yourself, because people could rebound and attack.

Well, there I was actually, um, trying to help. *blushes*
8.

Yes, Mother. <.< And the only criticism that I really give a one-cent’s care about is the criticism that comes from people that I actually know – like you. Otherwise, as far as fan stuff goes, I could care less.

Oh, and just how young do you think I am, anyway? Do you have any idea how patronizing that sounded? And that isn’t the first time you’ve ever said something like “oh, that’s all right, but be careful to” whatever. Stop it. Quit sounding so all-knowing.

I was irritated. It seriously sounded to me like EEZ was talking down to me, patronizing me. Now, whether she meant it or not, that’s how I read it, and I responded accordingly. I was irritated. Can anyone honestly say that they would have reacted differently? That they wouldn’t have been irritated if they felt that someone was being condescending to them?

At any rate, I think there are times when EEZ does sound all-knowing – and we all have our faults. I was simply calling her on what looks to be one of hers.

Oh, and where I come from, saying Mother or Father isn’t that big of a deal. I call Thrawn Father whenever I feel that he’s acting… well, like he’s older than I, or something like that. Pfft, I remember this one time when I was getting frustrated with my cousin not understanding what I was saying, and I called him a dodo. He was like “what’s your problem? why am I such a dodo?” But the thing was, I really didn’t mean it as an insult – I was frustrated, sure, but I wasn’t insulting. Saying “dodo” wasn’t a big deal to me, but it was to him. So I guess… saying Mother isn’t a big deal to me – and if it is to you, I apologize.

And so people today still oppose cybernetic implants. It figures. So what. …Don’t answer that; it was rhetorical.

…Eh, more, um… well, neutral isn’t exactly the right word, but I can’t think of a closer one, so I’ll go with that.
9.

Well duh. You think I don’t know that? Hello, I’m legally an adult, a home-school graduate, a history lover, a fantasy lover, a fantasy writer – you think I don’t know that? Sheesh.

A person feels that she’s being condescended to again, feels that the other person thinks that she doesn’t know much. She’s irritated.
10a.

You know what? It isn’t even necessary to improve, say, entertainment technology. We don’t need HD. We don’t need Surround Sound. Come on, you’re smart – you can figure this out.

That’s what I say to my siblings: “You’re smart, you can figure it out. I shouldn’t have to explain this to you.” I know that they’re smart, and I know that they can use their very bright minds to figure things out.

So, should I have said that here? Maybe not, but I was already irritated, and when I am, I can say things, you know? We all do that. I guess that since EEZ has already shown herself to come up with a lot of stuff, I thought that she can figure out what I had seen as a logical conclusion.
10b.

Don’t say that, don’t you ever say that – not even in jest! Improving things because you have a good heart… is what has brought us so many blessings in so many fields. People have been hurt, have died, trying to help other people.

It isn’t silly. At all.

I was upset here, as I said before. But I think that I was justly upset. You cross-reference to the post above to see what all I thought about this.
11a.

EEZ, I like you. In fact, I like you a lot. You’re a good artist, and you definitely have a gift with words, even if your grammar isn’t the greatest. When you’re being friendly, you’re a very fun, very nice person to be around online. And yet you can be one of the most stubborn, overbearing, un-listening people I’ve ever known (and I’m including fictional characters here, too). Not only that, but despite the fact that you do have a very intelligent head on your shoulders, you persist in saying the most ignorant things and not following concepts all the way through to conclusion!

Ohhh boy… This one, I can see as an insult. However, that was not what was intended. I felt that she was making some very erroneous assumptions, and I was irritated. I guess… I guess I was kind of calling her to task. I listed a couple of her faults (at least two of which I admit to having, as well)…

I… I still hold to what I said, I suppose. But did I really have the right to say what I did? …I don’t know. I honestly don’t know. There are points for and against.

EEZ, we all have our faults, and maybe I shouldn’t have listed yours. I’m sorry. If you want, I could list mine… although I’m not sure I want to give you all that dirt on me, whether you’d use it or not. *weak grin*
11b.

Now just for once, please listen to me, and listen well:

Definitely not mocking or condescending – actually, I was more begging her to listen to me, because I’d felt too often that she wasn’t.
11c.

Let’s take a little look at Earth history, shall we? There’s this little thing that ran basically from A.D. 500 to 1000, and it was part of a longer thing that ran from A.D. 500 to 1500. What were they called?

That’s right – the Dark Ages and the Middle Ages respectively.

Why do you think the Dark Ages was called that?

I wasn’t trying to be condescending, although I guess I can see how that could be misread as such. I was just doing a brief history lesson, honest!

Ummm… No duh.

…I guess that sounds kinda bad. EEZ just said something about body organs and how they last, etc, and… I mean, it was something I already knew. I was basically saying, “Well, yeah, no kidding. I knew that!” I guess I didn’t say it the right way, though. Sorry.
15a.

EEZ, this is a pure, perfect example of you not listening to me. You completely ignored what I said in my last post. Therefore, I will repeat myself:

…Well, I already explained this one. That I answered something she said, and then in her next round of posts, she came back and said the same thing, just differently worded.
15b.

Not only that, but “fleshy glory”?? So… what, organics are gonna lord it over people in biomechanical bodies just because they’re biomechanical? I know that people, as a rule, are stupid, but I don’t think they’re that stupid. Where’s the sense in hating a person or not treating him equal just because he’s got a lot of wires instead of veins in his body? That is so incredibly stupid, it… Holy cow, it was actually raising my heartbeat. No joke.

Note! I was not calling EEZ “stupid” – I was saying that what she figured other people would think was stupid. And whether it’s in real life or in fiction, I hate it when people are judged for things that they can’t help, etc. It really does boil my blood. So I was not irritated at EEZ herself – I was irritated at the injustice of the situation she was proposing.

I immerse myself into my work; I empathize with my own characters, and with the characters I write. That includes full-bodied cyborgs. I’ve put myself in that position in my imagination – where I’m a person who’s sustained terrible injuries, and my best option is a new prosthetic body. Learning to adjust to a new body is so difficult – my hands can’t perform delicate commands just yet, such as typing itself, or origami. There’s so much that I have to get used to, and sometimes, I’m so frustrated and despondent that I cry myself to sleep.

…That’s what I’ve imagined, that’s not what I’ve done.

I hate to come back to GITS, since it caused such a ruckus in the first place, but… My introduction to the cyberpunk phenomenon was this pair of videos on YouTube that my cousin had linked me to. It was about the relationship between this man and woman who were on opposite sides, and they hadn’t realized until late in the game that they’d been friends when they were children. The boy and girl were the sole survivors of a plane crash; the boy was paralyzed, and the girl never woke up. The girl disappeared, and long after, the doctors brought in a girl to visit the boy and try to convince him to get a prosthetic body. You see, this girl had a prosthetic body, too. They got to be friends, but the boy wanted to still be able to make origami cranes, as he had been doing for so long for the girl who died. When the cyborg girl tried to fold a crane, she found that she couldn’t handle delicate commands yet. The boy was heartbroken, and said that he wouldn’t get a prosthetic body if it meant that he could no longer fold cranes for the girl who died. The cyborg girl replied that she would keep on trying, and someday, she would fold cranes for him. Of course, the cyborg girl was the girl who had survived the crash, now in a new body. The boy decided to go through with the operation then, but the girl never came back. Years later, the girl was the leader of a paramilitary criminal investigation team, and the boy was the leader of a rebellion. When they became trapped together, they finally figured it all out.

…That’s why the passionate empathy on this subject, I guess. The stories have touched me on a deep level, the way that some stories touch all of us. We’re not just beings of facts and science – we’re also beings of emotion, art, imagination, and love. I feel very deeply on this subject, because my introduction to it struck chords in my heart.
15c.

And I just had a thought! You’re arguing against making full-bodied cyborgs a reality in my fic, for various nitpicky reasons. AND YET. You’re also arguing that full-bodied cyborgs wouldn’t be accepted in ANY situation, which is taking a swipe at a concept of science-fiction itself!

The fact is that most of your points don’t have that much to back them up, and it feels more like you just don’t like the idea – though whether just in my fic or in general, I can’t tell.

I still think that her points weren’t the strongest – and it’s not because I disagree with them – but I won’t argue and please don’t anyone else argue, either. But it was definitely looking like she just didn’t like the idea, period. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to take criticism on an idea from someone who doesn’t like the idea in the first place! Now, maybe I was misreading, but that’s really what it looks like to me. *shrugs helplessly*
16a.

Another invalid assumption: “a new race.” WHERE did you get THAT? Who ever said that the Zetas were a new race?

Weeellll… I mean, she pulled that “new race” thing on me out of the blue, and I was like: O.O O.o o.O ? Whaaaat? I don’t believe I ever said anything about the Zetas being isolated or unknown to the rest of the galaxy here… …Granted, there was one time in a very old chapter of Watermark/Breakaway, buuut the story’s changed a LOT since then, and I’m not even sure that EEZ ever read that chapter…
16b.

Hmm. THAT was a pretty racist comment. “Alien hearts”?

And you know what? To be skeptical of somebody because they’re doing good – no matter how weird it is… is stupid. I’m sorry, but it’s stupid. Do people tend to be bad rather than good? Yes. Absolutely. But do people who have good hearts tend to do good? Absolutely.

So, no, the Zetas do NOT have a dark, ulterior motive. They don’t have to have a dark, ulterior motive for them to be realistic. It’s a medical advancement, for crying out loud – a little something that you seem to keep conveniently overlooking.

And yes, they’re doing it because they’re doing good. There’s no good reason in the universe why a person can’t do good to someone with whom they have no quarrel. And I’m sure you’ve heard of the Hippocratic Oath.

Ummm… in my defense, that “alien hearts” bit did sound rather xenophobic.

And I can’t wrap my mind around how a person can be skeptical of someone just because they’re doing good. Well, if said skeptic was, like, more Scrooge-ish or villain-ish or something, yeah, but just a normal person… Um, then again, I don’t know if any of us here could actually be termed “normal”… I still think that to be skeptical of someone just because they’re doing good is stupid. It doesn’t follow that I think that EEZ is stupid, because I don’t. I actually think that she is a very intelligent young woman.

And you can bet that I was indeed slightly angry – not only on the skeptical bit – but also because I’d said before in three different posts that the whole cyberbrain/full-bodied cyborg thing was a medical advancement. I… I don’t get what’s so hard to understand about that. *is at a loss*

Umm, yeah. Whatever.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! O.O AAAHHH!!!

…*takes deep breaths to calm down* I never finished that part! That was the one time I missed finishing a part in my long!posts… I was going to say more! That was in response to EEZ telling me that I should watch a movie called District 9… Here’s the rest of what I would have posted after that:
“What is this movie even about? I’ve never heard of it before. I can’t put a film on my To Watch When I Have My Own House list unless I know what it’s about!”

…Steel said that those two little lines were mocking. Well, they were kinda rude, I guess, but they sure weren’t mocking. I was more… perplexed. I mean, EEZ tells me that I should watch a particular film, and… doesn’t even tell me what it’s about? O.o??
17.

Okay, look, you can say whatever you want about my points – I work to make mine good, but I will admit that I’m not the best in making them as clear and logical as possible. But my brother has one of the most logical minds I’ve ever heard of, no joke. He could easily become the best lawyer, the best military strategist – whatever occupation involves critical thinking to such a high degree, he could do it. He does not make merit-less points.

As I already explained… sisterly programming. Yeah. Thrawn can drive me up the wall sometimes, but I love him fiercely, and I really am so proud of him.
18.

That’s assuming a lot. That’s assuming the Zetas are dependent on interaction with the rest of the galaxy, that’s assuming that the other races wouldn’t care whether they offended the Zeta government or not, that’s assuming that the Zetas aren’t a superpower that can take care of itself, that’s even assuming that there’s a galactic government in existence!

And AGAIN, you are not listening!
[…]
Look at EARTH, for crying out loud. If there’s a galactic community out there, we’re TOTALLY isolated from it! And yet we’ve managed to survive on our own for millennia. Do we NEED other races? Mm, we would BENEFIT from better technology and medicine, certainly, but is interaction with other sentient races NECESSARY for our SURVIVAL?

I am thinking… no!

It was another case of where I’d said something before, then she comes back and says what she said before, as if she’d never read at all my response to her the first time around. …Umm, hopefully, you understood that. So, um, yeah. I was definitely irritated, not only at that, but also at some of the things she said about the circumstances that… just weren’t there in what I’d given her about my story. That’s what I meant by “assuming.”

Oh, and the “I am thinking no!” was, umm, actually a Gravitina quote. Opposites Attract: “Of course, your friends. But, can you fight me and save them? I am thinking… no!” *blushes* I probably should’ve referenced that there, but I didn’t really think to – *laughs weakly* I’ve been using that quote for the past eight years.
19.

Now you’re just saying things because you don’t have all the facts. Admittedly, neither do I, but I have a lot more facts than you do.

Well… she was talking about things she didn’t really know about, because I hadn’t yet shared that much with her. Actually, I think I ended up sharing a lot more with her than I’d wanted to make public, in trying to get her to understand. I guess it did sound kinda rude, which I really hadn’t meant.

In That Post, the rest of that section up to the next point where I quoted EEZ had some lines that could be misconstrued as condescending and whatnot, but I can assure that that was so NOT intended. I just don’t want to quote it all here, ‘cause all the paragraphs together are kinda long, and yet you’d need to see them to understand what I was saying. *heaves a weary sigh* …Yeah, I’m tired. Sorry. I’ve been working on this for the past, um… six days. Six days? *rubs eyes* Wow. I’m starting to get a little sick of typing this, but… I have to see it through to conclusion. It’s important, and I have a responsibility.

Aw, thank you! …Even after all this?

I’ll reiterate that that part was entirely innocent, and even hopeful. Hopeful that things would still be okay after everything I said. Because even then, I still cared – just like even now, I still care. A lot.


THE SKYFIRE HEARING IS HEREBY CONCLUDED. DEFENDANT PLEADS NEITHER INNOCENT NOR GUILTY. …Because she believes she was indeed guilty in some areas, and in other areas, maintains her innocence.

[Skyfire]

If you are reading this post first, stop now, and scroll back up – yup, aaall the way back up.


IN CONCLUSION…


Well, actually, first of all, let me make a plea. It might sound a bit petty, but it’s important to me. Steel, EEZ, will you please continue to be a part of the roleplay? ‘Cause… I honestly don’t know how we could continue it without you anymore. Sure, KJ and I managed to go it alone for several months, but that got to be… well, rather drab. And I LOVE having you guys in! It’s so awesome – it really is! I love playing Buzz against EEZ playing Zurg! Please, please, please don’t leave!

…Actually, come to think of it, we need to start thinking about what’s going to happen once the wedding’s crashed. I mean, has anyone really given it any thought? After that, it might well be like playing a videogame in “Free Play” mode rather than “Story” mode! Any ideas?


NOW FOR THE CONCLUSION…


EEZ, I’m sorry for sounding rude and mean. I honestly didn’t intend it. And when I think I was saying the truth, I should have said the truth in love. I’m sorry that I did not. I’m sorry if I hurt you. And I’m sorry for joking about slapping your tongue. I honestly didn’t think that it would insult you. I never meant to hurt or insult you at all. I’m sorry.

Will you please forgive me? On all accounts?

Steel, I’m sorry for helping to make a mess out of your thread. Maybe we can figure out some way to do something similar in the future, and be more careful next time.

Will you please forgive me?

Oh, and I’m going to give you both gift arts as a sort of peace offering. Let me know what you’d like me to draw (within reason, of course ), and I’ll do it!


…Okay, we agree that there were mistakes on both sides. Both sides misread what the other side was saying, and both sides felt mistreated. Now, we can let those mistakes divide us, OR…

We can learn from this to be more careful in the future, in what we say and in being sensitive of others. We need to learn from our mistakes, because as the saying goes: Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it. It’s true. So let’s make sure that nothing like this ever happens again.

Most friendships have their rocky times – I think this is like that. So, are we going to let that friendship go, or are we going to make it stronger now than ever?

Whaddaya say?

I leave you now with a beautiful song about friendship: www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OJ-F6FpOCA

I’ve heard it said
That people come into our lives
For a reason
Bringing something we must learn
And we are led to those
Who help us most to grow
If we let them
And we help them in return

Well, I don’t know if I believe that’s true
But I know I’m who I am today
Because I knew you

Like a comet pulled from orbit
As it passes a sun
Like a stream that meets a boulder
Halfway through the wood
Who can say if I’ve been changed
For the better?
Because I know you
I have been changed
For good

It well may be
That we will never meet again
In this lifetime
So let me say before we part
So much of me
Is made of what I learned from you
You’ll be with me
Like a handprint on my heart

And now whatever way our stories end
You know you have rewritten mine
By being my friend

Like a ship blown from its moorings
By a wind of the sea
Like a seed dropped by a sky-bird
In a distant wood
Who can say if I’ve been changed
For the better?
Because I know you
I have been changed
For good

And just to clear the air
I ask forgiveness
For the things I’ve done you
Blamed me for

But then I guess
We know there’s blame to share
And none of it seems to matter anymore~!

Like a comet pulled from orbit / Like a ship blown from its moorings
As it passes a sun / By a wind of the sea
Like a stream that meets a boulder / Like a seed dropped by a bird
Halfway through the wood / In a distant wood

Who can say if I’ve been changed
For the better?

I do believe I have been changed for the better

And, because I knew you
…Because I knew you
Because I knew you

I have been changed~
For... good...

[eez]

Baaaaaaaaaw! Even after all this, all this turmoil and confusion, you still don't understand me! D:

And I, probably not you!

Deliciously maddening, no?

But enough of that silly, purple sort! *takes out reading spectacles* You made four lovely posts that are, together in total, probably as big as some of my earlier chapters! This calls for careful time and consideration to dissect and analyze so that, in the future, we do not fall prey to mis-communication ever again--for I feel that THAT is what truly caused this entire mess in the first place.

Ohohohohoh, and now....it starts.

MANDALORE THRAWN

Be as it may that you and your brother share a strong sibling bond, this addition didn't really...how should I say in English...help the situation. Now, you, yourself, might disagree as well as your brother (and you have every right to), but...it was like adding water to an electrical fire. The point I'm trying to make is that your brother is your brother and (here, let's even the odds) Steel is a dear friend of mine--don't you see that this leads to biased opinions? Ckret and Saron were good NEUTRAL observers and as such, they were entirely justified. I, and even given with my major of study, cannot take for credit your brother's and Steel's posts in their entirety as they are somewhat--be it of conscious will or subconscious--biased.

It wasn't that I pegged your brother as an enemy--that would be insensitive on my end--it was more along the lines that I couldn't take his post to be intangible to our discussion since he was your brother. Same goes to Steel, as well.

By being related to us, in any form, they are involved in this and as such, they could be swayed to either side's disposition not solely based upon facts and observations.

Apparent Malice and Hate on Either End

But. Some of the stuff she’s said could be taken that way – yes, even skirted along the lines of what could almost be termed “derogatory” – and I’ll come back to that point later.

Ah-ah-ah, I must stop you here (don't worry, I already read all your posts).

I am afraid, my dear Skyfire (no, that wasn't patronizing), that you assumed too much and understood too little--and perhaps this is true to everyone; I cannot say as I cannot speak for those who are not me at this point.

On your end, you thought of me as condescending and mocking, but I would argue on my end, I thought the exact same thing.

Don't you see? It's not about the pot calling the kettle black anymore--we're both black and we're too confused and stubborn to admit it so of course we're going to misconstrue our other's words and initial attitudes with ones we find apparent to us.

And about that Tongue-Slapping...

The fact that you slapped my *virtual tongue* does not bother me in the slightest. You can slap pixels all you want for, after all, they're just pixels and they have no attachment to me, do they? (Neopets does not count! FFFFF)

What made me narrow my eyes and scratch my head was the fact that you couldn't help but slap me for my views--this being evolution. Sure, maybe that's not what you intended (maybe it was all out of good fun and cheer) but remember, you are not me and I, am not you; so of course, again, we're going to differ on some things, yes? It's to be expected.

And I must tell you, censorship in the fandom is a very bad, bad thing. It happened in the very first BLoSC board, it happened here, and it's probably happened elsewhere. In the first board, do you know what happened?

It died. No joke.

Ask several other old timers who are either still around or remember and they'll surely tell you the same thing--except those who dropped off the face of the planet....where they are, not even I know about at this rate. Maybe never will, either.

So you see, you slapping me had nothing to do with my disgruntled state. It was the fact that you *slapped* me for my views--I have stated before, I think. I don't know, long posts like this cause me to forget and skip things (as you have seen).

But alas, for forgiveness you ask and so you shall receive it.

If you want to know why I didn't reply it was because I was busy handling all the information you thrust upon me. My mind is not advanced to the point where I can record data and pick it from there. Oh no, I have to re-read, make notes, and even skip a few things since I can't possibly answer them all in the given space requirement and that, sadly, was one of them.

So yes, I do forgive you, but in the future you don't have to ask for it. I will tell that once all this is done and behind, I don't carry grudges and I clean the slate to a blank new beginning~!

Either that, or I take a nap and all is good and just in the universe.

Creationists, Evolutionists, Nihilists, Oh My!

*twiddles thumbs and wiggles lips*

I'm still deciding if I want to touch this, or not. It's like that shiny, red button that says 'DO NOT TOUCH' because if you do, then it probably leads to some cataclysmic event--but you press it anyway, cause hey, you wanted to touch that darn shiny, red button and by Jove, no one was gonna stop ya.

So I'm touching it~!

*bwooop*

Okay, so let's do this!

It's good that you like your faith, it really is. I have nothing against Christianity or any religion for that matter (so long as they don't preach evil bad things), so with that said....

As one die-hard Evolutionist to a die-hard Creationist, I wish you well in the journey to truth and enlightenment. I wouldn't call it a war, as that sounds violent, but a friendly race to see which is the correct and the other....well, you get the gist of it.

But as for the religion aspect of BLoSC, I meant it as their OWN religions--not necessarily ours, for you see, that's what I also meant about Disney and law suits. If you want to attract a wider range of viewers, as not everyone is Christian and so forth, you make it a happy shade of neutral and get a wider spectrum of audiences. Sure, BLoSC can have its own alien religions, but as for a real world type....that's best left to the real world, no?

Besides! Wouldn't it be nifty and cooler if you made your own religion for aliens? Something entirely unique and different? That's what I did and I love it so far.

Constructive Criticism, EEZ Did Not Do?

So! You say that to be constructive it has to offer suggestions?

Why! Surely, we did. Surely, I did.

And I did.

I did offer valid suggestions such as looking up scientific processes on your own instead of waiting on Saron (because, let's face it, that naughty Saron is so busy with her education it's unbelievable and it puts me to shame as a slacker). I also said to use Google for more ideas as that can prove to a whole new wondrous amount of information not thought possible. And, I also suggested that instead of relying on Earth terms (see, terrestrial) I meant as in leave beyond that of Western, Eastern, and Any civilization of humanity and grasp an entirely new outlook on things.

What do you think I did for my alien Zurg? I did an entirely new biology, I had to read more research, I had to invent culture, customs, sounds, foods, dialects, and even a language--that is still in the works.

Perhaps you, yourself, refused to listen to my suggestions. Perhaps maybe not.

Whatever the case, the suggestions were there: you only need to look for them with a different set of eyes than you are used to.

How Can I Possibly Understand EEZ

Simple: You can't.

Only the person can truly understand themselves and even in that, there is room for fail. But in all honestly, if you do not understand me then please, do not assume my methods and meanings conveyed by my words.

Not once did I mean to be rude, mocking, or condescending, so I appreciate if you would consider this as I have considered you--as much as I can understand, that is. You do more harm than good if you assume that the other side's intent is to hurt rather than to reinforce.

Maybe you thought it was being rude, but I guarantee you Skyfire, that you simply did not understand--and that very well may have been the case.

You simply do not understand me.

Your Story

If it's your story and you posted it publicly, know with full confidence that there will always be those select few out there who pick apart things like vultures--hurrhurr. But also know, with full confidence, that these vultures pick apart the rotting flesh and expose the bony framework underneath. What I did, like the vulture, was tear apart your details and get to the root of your work. It was not pretty work, but it was work with the utmost respect of the word.

What I did, I did to help improve you; not to hinder you and make you put up a defense barrier.

If we can’t handle people who just shoot totally from their heads – yes, even if that includes what we might think is meanness – then we’ve got problems.

Shoot From Yer Head!

Meanness, no matter what sugar we coat upon it, is not justified. The problem is that you shot from your head so it is only natural that you take the return fire that comes as a consequence.

When people "shoot" from their heads, as you say, you invite more hostility and heated return fire. And I also guarantee you, Skyfire, that if I were to shoot from my head, you would be reduced to a mere smoldering cinder; this much I promise you.

And that was not a threat, just a friendly warning in all regards.

If you think I was being mean or petty, then I must say that you were wrong in the assumption. When I become mean and petty, things scurry for cover, children flock to their mothers, and grown men tremble and weep. Cats....cats just mew and go about their ways because, hey, they're cats.

*yay imagery*

Ahem! I rambled!

The only “obvious” that I’m seeing here is (a) you’re a loyal friend, and (b) you misread most (if not all) of what I said. So, with all due respect, I don’t really see any “obvious” here the way you’re seeing it – with all the misunderstanding floating around, “obvious” has suddenly gone into the realm of subjectivity.

It's Like, Soooooo Obvious

Well again, I would say keep in mind that what you see is not what I see, what Steel sees, or what anyone else sees--and the same goes vice versa.

There are more parties than just your own; there are parties within parties and so the process spirals. You may think you are a victim in your own thoughts and actions, but that may not be true to us, or me even. And no one said we would drop a friendship at the split of an atom. So it's a one-time occurrence (or is it?) and it happened so fast; it still happened and as such, it must be taken into consideration.

The same goes to a one-time murderer. Again, perhaps you do not see it as a similar concept, but then again....I'm a law major so just goes to show, no?

All those Darn, Galaxy-long Posts!

Like I stated earlier, or not (memory dwindles since this is SO DARN LONG), the longer the posts the harder it is to keep up with the thoughts and ideas that come with it. If I were to assess it over a period of days, the thoughts would decay in my mind as I am a very busy, working individual. Not saying that anyone isn't it, but I know for a fact that I cannot address everything if it is over a mile long and I only have a few hours to do so.

So yes, naturally things will be lost or gone unnoticed.

I am only....human.

But I (understandably) don’t appreciate it when those theories/opinions/whatever are trying to tear down what I’ve worked so hard on.

This was simply not our intent.

You really think that EEZ’s humor is like that? Honestly, I’ve never encountered her kind of humor anywhere else.

I'd suggest reading the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy then. It's a good, witty book that makes you stop and go "Whaaaa"--a sensation I feel I make people do around my humour.

More To Say in Other Posts To Come!

[eez]

Ah yes, the second post to what may be a really long, arduous trilogy.

Kinda sounds like Twilight, amirite!? *no offense to Twilight fans*

So by all means, let us continue....

So actually, every criticism – you can call it negative or positive, doesn’t matter – that was leveled at my stuff was very much leveled at me. It was personal.

It Was Personal

And it should not have been. You are not the only writer, Skyfire, who puts passion and effort into their work; however, it is also not wise--and this is coming from me this time--to attach yourself to your own work so strongly. That only leads to hurt feelings and irrational defenses. If you desire to be an outstanding artist, be it writing or drawing, you cannot take things too personal as they would detract from your work in the long run. There are even harsher critics out there who wouldn't think of a second to gut you--how would you hold up?

The only thing I want you to understand from this is that being too personal clouds one's judgment.

And no, that was not patronizing.

Not only that, but… has anything like this ever happened to you, guys?

Actually, it has. My character was drawn in a very shameful way without my knowledge and essentially made fun of by the artist--someone whom we all know by know, I would like to think. Do you not think that I was irate and on a death roll? Darn straight I was! I wanted her head presented to me on a purple platter.

But also see that the instance was short-lived and that nothing ever came out of it ever again--or so I hope. I have not held a decent conversation with the artist in quite some time; and perhaps that is for the best.

…Be really honest with yourselves, and try to figure out how you would have felt, how you would have reacted. Just a thought.

You are not the only victim, Skyfire, in the history of this fandom--there are several others who have experienced, and beyond experienced, your own tribulations with just me.

Never forget that.

If I were trying to mock and be malicious and all that, a negative tone would have held throughout the entire post. Instead, That Post was interspersed with completely normal replies. If you can’t recall any, just go back and look through it – you’ll see what I’m talking about.

Again, we do not see as you do. We cannot be assumed to understand where you are coming from. Perhaps you held higher hopes and expectations? Perhaps not.

We do not, and I do not, know you enough Skyfire to make those calls.

Skyfire And I

Lawyers:

It's a good assumption simply because it's how the media is run. If you do not figure that out on your own, I suggest you pay more attention.

Whenever you watch something by Disney, you will notice that they do not use everyday brands commonly--if at all. Want to know why? Because you have to pay to use that brand's name. You must pay royalties and this is why, when I made that remark, Disney is very good at being creative and dodging copyright.

It's how the game is played.

Oh and Zurg hates lawyers for a reason~! They get in everyone's clothing like sand.

Homo What did She Say?

I hate to be the bearer of bad, evil news but.....that information you plucked Skyfire sounds a bit biased to me; as mine no doubt sounds to you. And you said the key right there: Christian textbooks.

Here's a story about myself: I went to public school all my life. I was given textbooks, and yes they were biased in their own rights, but I have never heard that all those theories have been false and that we are connected more to chickens than apes.

Of course, this makes me blink and stare at the screen with odd faces but I won't get into that--as this thread is NOT about bringing up old points.

It's about discussing our views and then finally apologizing, no?

Of Insectoids, Primates, and Sentience

I won't get into this because you didn't understand what I meant and where I was coming from. Also, I was brought up that 'sentience' had to do with the level of intelligent of a species and what they do with that intelligence is what determines their level of sentience--not about their soul or spirit.

Of course, that is just my upbringing.

It felt a bit condescending and demeaning.

And I am afraid you felt it wrong as I did not wish to achieve that side-effect.

Bringing Up Old Points in Old Threads

Now, Skyfire, see here: bringing up old points to bolster your own side is below the belt, and I wear a low belt.

They had nothing to do with our discussion as they were entirely separate from it. To bring evidence of other cases without a probable "warrant" and then to use that in the current case is what we call in law school the "Exclusionary Rule": meaning, you cannot bring in evidence that was not issued a sincere search into a case that was not allowed such evidence.

What I mean by this is that you bringing up all those old points is a very dirty, under-handed, and petty move.

I was going to mention this when you brought me, myself, into the locked thread but I let it slide--until now that is.

I don't recall ever bringing in outside points as they had no place or merit within this topic and I would appreciate if you did the same and held a similar level of respect.

And yes, this was all said in a rather calm and humble tone.

The Rest of Your Quotes

I need not bother to reply to them as they contained assumptions based upon your own views and like I stated above several times, you do not fully understand me.

Therefore, I need not explain them since I would rather avoid another "bloodbath" on a designated "peace" thread.

I May Have More to Say, I May Not

[eez]

And it turns out that I do have more to say~!

Hopefully this is the last one.

What is Unacceptable RAEG

And… unacceptable… So… we can’t take somebody venting a lot of steam, even if it’s in a burst? No matter how bad it might sound? That’s… not good.

Actually, if you really want to know, that wasn't the gist of it at all. I'm not sure what you saw in that one, little blurb but it wasn't what I saw--but of course~!

When I said RAEG, I meant the overall tone of the thread in general. Your post, Steel's post, your brother's post, mine; all of them. I am not sure where you got your view on it, as it made no sense to me, but with this explanation hopefully you are better to understand.

And if you must know, I can handle a RAEG over 9001 suuuuuuuns! *dramatic outcry*

Moar Assumptions? Sandvich, GO!

Um, weeell… sometimes, it sure didn’t look like you were “just wanting to know.” Sometimes, it looked like you didn’t at all like what I had, and you wanted me to just scrap it and start over. Actually, you more or less said so more than once – about scrapping and starting over, that is, not disliking.

If you wanted to know the truth, you should have asked me what I meant instead of assuming what I meant. I did, in all sincerity, want to know but perhaps, and this is perhaps, you assumed differently.

I never told you to stop using words; every time I wanted to you to drop something, I did use question marks. I asked.

What about the word "paradigm"? *leaves that right thur*

And I think that you said all that because you were hurting – and I really hope that you don’t still mean it. Because I didn’t insult you or attack you – there are one or two times where I can see how you’d think that – but I didn’t, honest.

I am afraid that is not the case. I bleed, yes, but I do not hurt. I may rage for a bit but then I forget and move on. Nothing you said hurt me in the slightest *thick skinned potato is I*. Then again....if you wanted to know if I "hurt", a PM would have been lovely because not everyone is able to take a nap and wake up feeling fresh.

I only hurt once, and that was when the artist drew something I mentioned ago. And yes, when I hurt, I tend to bring it all down with me and bring it all down, I did.

Well… yeah. I mean, you weren’t the one going out on a limb here, and it wasn’t your stuff that was dragged into the cutting room. So… there would be no reason for you to have any “woes” in the first place.

Not true again, for when I said "woes" I meant outside struggles--not my work. See? You didn't understand me~! Besides, I have yet to post anything of my work save for telling a select few about it. Go ahead, ask them how I react when they offer criticism. It wasn't as hectic and chaotic as this, that's for sure. XD

Well, I addressed this before, but, umm… Are you sure about that? Really, really sure? I mean, you mentioned it in the first place – I couldn’t have “slapped” you for something you’d never said. So… I don’t know, I think it could have come up again.

I am sure and this is what I think.

Well, briefly, let me repeat that Thrawn definitely never attacked anybody. …And he never even mentioned Ckret. O.o?

He doesn't have to; it was to posters in general.

Your Quotes

It is not my place to bring your older quotes up to cross-reference; if those who are interested want to, then they may do so. However, I would have appreciated it if you did NOT post my own sayings as that could be seen as rude--and it was. If I want to claim my mouth, I will--besides, to have the other side talk about your sayings is somewhat biased; but then again, so is talking about yours.

Ohhh boy… This one, I can see as an insult. However, that was not what was intended. I felt that she was making some very erroneous assumptions, and I was irritated. I guess… I guess I was kind of calling her to task. I listed a couple of her faults (at least two of which I admit to having, as well)…

I… I still hold to what I said, I suppose. But did I really have the right to say what I did? …I don’t know. I honestly don’t know. There are points for and against.

EEZ, we all have our faults, and maybe I shouldn’t have listed yours. I’m sorry. If you want, I could list mine… although I’m not sure I want to give you all that dirt on me, whether you’d use it or not. *weak grin*

I must say that it was not your place to do so, Skyfire, and it was very rude and inconsiderate of you. If you are irritated, then I would suggest you rephrase things in a more level and cool manner. I was offended that you took it upon yourself to task my own person when I did no such thing of you, and I will not at this rate--it is not my place.

It would be fitting if I demanded that you publicly place your own shames and faults--a culture custom from my own--but I will not for I will not sink that low. If you do not want to put yourself to task then do not put someone else up, either.

Ummm… in my defense, that “alien hearts” bit did sound rather xenophobic.

I don't I need to say my side in this as you did not understand entirely.

I Have Finished

There are still so many quotes left untouched but after reading and replying to all this, I feel disgusted in my stomach and I wish to no longer continue with this. It's a sore, sour subject within the back of my throat and I do not want to linger any longer with it.

Yes, I do accept all apologies and yes, I will "bend" as it was said to make an apology of my own:

To all those who had read as lurkers and as posters:

I am sorry that you had to see such a dirty, and gritty thread. Both sides were unrelenting and not everyone understood each other to the point where there was confusion. Some things could have been avoided if there were PMs and if either side was TRULY sincere enough to send one--but none were, so that leaves perhaps little to desire.

To Skyfire, to whom I do apologize to:

No, I do not hate you. I have no reason to at this rate as my hate is left alone and reserved for those I deem truly worthy of such an evil feat.

No, I will not ignore the RP sessions with you as those are meant to be enjoyed with everyone and everything.

No, I will not forget about mistakes from either side and from this, I learned a great deal about you.

And finally...yes, I will put it behind me and strive onwards but also know that now this has been done, things cannot go back to the way they were.

For good and for worse, though, I will still be EEZ.

((BUT! Before I almost forgot as I was about to fall asleep, I said all this--ALLLLL THIS--in the most polite and respectful way that I could to an air such a this thread's. So! With that said, I don't want anyone to take it the wrong way and think I'm being a hard-head. (I probably am, just not realizing it, but you know....I don't want to be and my intentions are trying to be good XD)

I want everyone to know that I am trying to go about this in a good and positive way.))

[Skyfire]

...Thanks, EEZ.

I'll answer your posts more fully when I have the time, and I think it'll actually be just a single post! *cheers* (It's a miracle, amirite? ;D)
For now, may I please give you a virtual hug?

[Skyfire]

...Thanks, EEZ.

I'll answer your posts more fully when I have the time, and I think it'll actually be just a single post! *cheers* (It's a miracle, amirite? ;D)
For now, may I please give you a virtual hug?

[eez]

No problem, Skyfire, and I think we all need a hug since this ordeal was draining and stressful--at least for me it was, I'll admit. XD

*grabs everyone into a group hug like a naughty black hole and just squeezes*

And hey! If you want to reply to me specifically, why not send through PM? It might be best so that we just keep it to a minimum and prevent lurkers or members from getting dragged into all this. I have a feeling others reading our posts might not understand our good intentions, but that could just be my cautionary nature.