Zurg's motivation? Friendly theorizing, please.

[ckret2]

Because Blacksteel and I had a ridiculously long conversation last night, we ended up inventing a load of hypothetical theories as to why, exactly, Zurg does what he does, and what he intends the end result of his work to be. We figured it'd be a good idea to compile our various mini-theories in one place, toss them out, see what you all think, and see if anyone can come up with more theories. ;D Because there's no fun like random, baseless theorizing.

1) Zurg is, quite simply, motivated by hatred for the Galactic Alliance and Star Command. Therefore, all he really wants to do is destroy them. He's got no plan beyond that, he doesn't care what will become of the galaxy after the GA and SC are gone, he just wants to get rid of them. The end result of his success would probably be anarchy. He isn't STRIVING for anarchy, it would just be a side-effect.
-- Why does he hate them that much? Could be any number of reasons. Maybe he was raised prejudiced, maybe it's a revenge thing, maybe he disagrees with their moral code, maybe Madame President and Commander Nebula stole his lunch money when he was five. Who knows.

2) Rather than being just anti-Galactic Alliance, he is pro-Something Else. He wants to destroy the GA and SC, but primarily so that he can get them out of the way in order to establish something else; for example, an actual stable empire (based on "evil" rather than "good," interpret that however you wish) that he intends to sustain far into the future.
-- If this is the case, why is it we see him obsessing more over destroying the GA and SC than over making whatever it is that comes after? Perhaps because he has to get the current galactic order out of the way before he can establish the new one. Or perhaps because, while he THINKS he wants this new galactic order of his, he's become so obsessed with trying (and failing) to get rid of the GA and SC first that he's nearly lost sight of his original goal.
---- If it is the latter case--that is, if he's lost sight of his goal--then if he should succeed in taking down the GA and SC, he may discover he no longer really cares about his original goal, or remembers how he planned to do it. Even if he might WANT to be the evil emperor of a whole galaxy, that doesn't guarantee that he'd be a good one.

3) Zurg is cuckoo-nutso and honestly has no motivation beyond the battles themselves. It's like a video game: most games these days (them new-fangled ones at least) have "story mode," where you play through the game and try to complete a goal and "win" the game, and then they have "multi-player mode," where the only goal is to play a whole lot of battles with other people with no definitive plot to pursue. Zurg is playing in multi-player mode with the universe, rather than story mode. He doesn't have any goal in sight; he just gets a crazy delight out of the battles. (Hush, I like my metaphor.)
-- Potentially, Zurg's cuckoo-nutso-ness is specifically focused on Buzz. To continue the video game metaphor, he's like one of those people who only thinks a certain game is fun if they can play it with a certain friend. (Friend, arch-nemesis... po-tay-to, po-tah-to.)

4) Evil is kind of like a drug. Zurg got into it when he was younger, found he couldn't kick the habit, and now just keeps doing evil because he's addicted. If you'd like, say he'll go into withdrawal if he CAN'T do evil. Actually, that'd be pretty funny. Somebody should write that. (You can also pretend there are "evil rehab centers" out there somewhere, but I'm preeetty sure that's what places like jail are supposed to be.) Anyway, bottom line: Zurg does evil because he can't quite find a way to stop.
-- There are two ways this can go (that I can think of, at least). It can be humorous--as stated above--or it can go all Dark And Angsty. Personally, I think Dark And Angsty would be kinda dull and come off as cliche, but in the hands of the right writer, etc.
-- You could also say he's "addicted" to evil because he's actually under mind control or possessed or something like that, if you want to venture really far out into crack-theory-land. However, that would almost be like saying, "The Zurg we know is not the actual Zurg AT ALL," and invalidating the entire personality of a currently established canon character seems rather pointless. I would be REALLY impressed with someone who could pull off mind control and still, somehow, miraculously, keep Zurg IC. Since it would be, y'know, HARD.

5) Here, have a crack theory: He's not ACTUALLY evil. He's got an evil score of 12, after all. He just plays the big bad evil emperor because he's actually rooting for the GA and SC, but knows that without somebody to oppose them, they'll turn into wimps; and then if a force that's TRULY evil and that TRULY wants to destroy them comes along (like the Heed, or anti-Lightyear), they'd be unprepared. So he's actually doing them a favor by keeping them fighting-fit. (Someone who pulled this off would quite possibly be even more impressive than somebody who could pull off mind control.)

6) Sort of like the less-cracky offspring of 4 and 5, combining "stuck with evil" and "not actually that bad": Zurg tried out evil, and discovered he wasn't that into it. (Like the guy who spends fifteen years as an accountant and eventually works his way up to CEO, but deep in his heart, he always wanted to be a rock star instead.) However, during his period of "sampling" evil, he ended up really excelling at doing evil, and so he's stuck with it all these years--not because he's planning on doing anything with it, but because he'd already acquired a reputation, and so he had to stick with evil just to save face.

7) The only one that's actually supported by canon: Zurg tries a lot to blow up Star Command and he fights a lot with Buzz. Because... he's evil, and that's just... what he does. Yeah. That's Zurg. (Yeah, I know, this one is lame. But Blacksteel and I ran out of decent hypothetical theories, so I tried to figure out what was we actually COULD conclude 100% from the series. And that was it.)

8) Because this one is obligatory, and so we have to get it out of the way eventually. He's doing it for love. Why, you ask? What love, you ask? Shut up, he's doing it for love. There is no other reason.
-- And this one is totally canon too because EEEEVERYONE knows that Zurg is just a Vader knock-off. Ahahaha. Ahaha. Aha.
---- No. Just no.
---- Unless it's love of destruction/the battle (see theory 3) or love of evil (see theory 2) or, if you want to be cracky, a secret love of the GA that he expresses through "tough love" (see theory 5). That's all cool. Except the secret love of the GA one, that one's still pretty cracky.

9) He doesn't actually care personally about what he's doing. Well, maybe he enjoys the job, but he's not doing it for himself. Assuming that Zurg is in fact part of some alien (meaning: non-Galactic Alliance) culture, he might be working on their behalf to get rid of the GA. That still leaves a question about why his bosses would want the GA out of the way, and a lot of the theories above could apply here as well. (The aliens just hate the GA and want it gone, or they want to take over it and integrate it into their own society, or they're ALL cuckoo-nutso and just like beating on neighboring civilizations for fun...)
-- Insert nod to Kila and "Both Syllables" right here, you know what I'm talking about. Although I hasten to point out that Zurg could be acting on behalf of an alien civilization completely and totally different from the alien civilization he is part of in BS, and really, he wasn't even acting on THEIR behalf in BS either... I'll just shut up now.

As you can see, we've got nine theories so far. A PITIFUL NUMBER. We need at least double digits!

So, anybody else have any ideas for what Zurg might be up to? Feel free to throw them out. ;D Even two-sentence little "What if he's...?" theories are welcome.

[Blacksteel]

I FEEL LIKE WE ARE MISSING SOMETHING, AND SOMETHING BIG. D:

I'll have to think about it... after my assignmeeeeeents. >.<

But here's most of our chat last night, in case anyone was curious to see the thought process. xD

Blacksteel: Well, if he is a different species [...] who says that he'd actually have the same responsibilities as an earthly human emperor?
Blacksteel: Like, for example, his kind might elect emperors based on merit. And making sure to have an heir would not be a necessity for him.
ckret2: Like, what sort of responsibilities? Heir-making responsibilities or other?
Blacksteel: Yes, that, and others too. I mean, there are different customs amongst humans; you'd think there'd be even more different customs if you compare humans to non humans, right?
ckret2: This is true, yeah. And Zurg certainly doesn't seem to be running a typical "empire." Who are his subjects: hornets, grubs, and brain pods? Not the usual "subjects."
Blacksteel: It's a business. Zurg is a businessman at heart. Remember fiscal quarter? xD
ckret2: Indeed. XD
ckret2: And if he is somehow elected by merit, then nah, breeding an heir definitely wouldn't be necessary.
ckret2: Or, if his empire truly IS structured like a "business," a typical CEO doesn't hand of the business to his son.
ckret2: ...But most big businesses have a board of executive-type people under the CEO, which Zurg doesn't seem to have... but anyway.
Blacksteel: He has a board of brain pods and grubs~
Blacksteel: And all the other villains. Remember A Zoo Out There?
ckret2: I kinda figured the A Zoo Out There meeting was more like a one-off villain convention to see how the business of evil in general was going, rather than a meeting of Zurg's top underlings.
ckret2: So on the one hand, his society might not be set up like the usual Earth empires. But, on the other hand, what if Zurg doesn't have a home "society"?
Blacksteel: Care to elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean...
ckret2: About the "home society" thing: Zurg had to have been born into some culture, undoubtedly. But, you suggested "his kind" might elect their emperors. What if he's no longer associated with "his kind"?
Blacksteel: If he is no longer associated with his kind, then there still would be no need for an heir, now would there? He would need a position of power for security.
ckret2: I meant, if he wanted to continue his empire.
Blacksteel: Why would he? He seems to be on a self-destructive path. He has beef with the Galactic Alliance and Star Command. He never mentions the Outback, for example.
ckret2: We don't know what Zurg's thinking: does he want to take over the Galactic Alliance and rule it until he dies and then let it do whatever, or does he want to establish a permanent evil empire?
Blacksteel: I think, that it is not so much as rule, as destroy.
ckret2: In which case he wouldn't need an heir.
ckret2: So, Zurg could go one of two ways:
ckret2: 1) His goal in life is to wipe out all that is good (esp. the GA and SC), with no concern for what comes after that, in which case his Evil Emperor title is just a means to collecting power/support.
ckret2: or 2) He actually wants to create an ideal society (with "ideal" being "evil") that he will rule as emperor, but we don't see much of that motivation because he must first destroy the GA and SC.
ckret2: Can't start working on his new galactic order until he wipes out the old one.
Blacksteel: I think option 1. Because despite not acting truly evil, he is quite aware of the term and of the title he bears.
Blacksteel: Also, he wouldn't need a society because the only people on Planet Z are grubs and brain pods. He doesn't have civilians, he doesn't have necessities in a society; he just has armouries and factories.
ckret2: And that's somehow contradictory with option 2?
Blacksteel: Yes, because those who usually want to create a new empire do so without realizing they are doing something wrong.
Blacksteel: They think they are doing good when they really do harm; lawful evil, the end justifies the means, and so on.
ckret2: Then again, how many people in the real world actively call themselves "evil" and mean it?
Blacksteel: He means it; he always brags about how evil he is and he's picky about adding it to his title whenever people do it wrong.
Blacksteel: He is aware of his evilness even though he is not as evil as other villains, like Evilyear.
ckret2: That's my point; real world people don't realize they're doing something wrong when they create an empire--however, real world people ALSO don't call themselves evil.
ckret2: The fact that Zurg DOES call himself evil means he's already not quite playing by real world rules, whatever his motivation is.
Blacksteel: Exactly why Option 2 does not work. *wink*
ckret2: I kinda view BLoSC morality as something skewed from the way real world morality works, though that may just be me: evil isn't just something "the enemy does," evil is actually a lifestyle choice.
Blacksteel: Well, if we were to take him out of the cartoon verse and put him in the real world, he would be a self-destructive anarchist.
ckret2: In the real world, yes.
ckret2: In the cartoon verse, who's to say it'd be impossible for him to decide that, rather than working merely to tear down the forces of good, he could work to BUILD UP the forces of evil?
ckret2: Their definition of "good" and "evil" doesn't seem to be the same as our definition, which corresponds to "correct" and "incorrect."
ckret2: The good guys say good is correct and evil is incorrect--and the bad guys like Zurg can say that evil is correct and good is incorrect.
Blacksteel: He does "work" with other villains; however, they are all beneath him and never as powerful as he. If he does "improve" someone, it is for his own personal gain. Good an evil are relative terms, even in BLoSC.
ckret2: Whereas in the real world, both sides will argue that their side is good/correct, in the BLoSC universe, both sides can argue that their side is correct w/o NEEDING the claim that it is good.
ckret2: ... if that made sense...?
Blacksteel: Ah, but he has never said that his path is the correct path, has he? He's not delusional that way; he knows what he's doing is incorrect. He is fully aware of the consequences.
Blacksteel: He is also rather Machiavellianistic.
ckret2: He's never used the word "correct," but he does seem to BELIEVE somehow that it is correct to follow evil and not good, or else he wouldn't do it.
Blacksteel: I never saw that as "correct"; I saw it as his own chosen path, and he is content with it.
ckret2: […] if he were wholly destructive, then his decisions on everything he does are not based on what he thinks he, personally, "should" do, but on what he thinks is directly contrary to what everyone else thinks is right. (Which may, in fact, be how he thinks.) On the other hand, rather than having a morality that is "anti-everything-that-is-right," he could have a morality that is "evil," which happens to correspond very closely to everything that good says is WRONG. In such a case, he could still DESCRIBE this morality of his in terms that make it clear that his morality is almost a point-by-point opposite to the predominant morality of the universe, "goodness." That wouldn't make his morality inherently destructive, nor his lack of vocabulary that says "this is correct/right/etc." indicative of a personal, INTERNAL belief that his chosen path is an incorrect one. And, if he had a belief system like this--that is, self-contained and internally consistent, without relying on comparisons to an external opposite morality to be viable--then he could strive to create a society based on this system, rather than merely attempt to destroy the status quo without having a stable alternative to offer. So, if Zurg's "evil" is only "anti-good," therefore, relying on good for its definition he's pretty much got no choice but to follow Option 1. However, if his "evil" can exist independently of the definition of "good," he could possibly follow Option 2.
Blacksteel: So you think he’s going against the grain to be different purposefully? As in, just to do the opposite of what Good says and does?
Blacksteel: But Zurg doesn’t seem to actually care what the good side thinks. He called them mindless nobodies once. No, I think he’s specifically just against the GA and SC.
ckret2: I think that that is what he would be doing if he were following Option 1.
Blacksteel: He's rather apathetic towards them; and even in Planet Destroyer when he shows how he wants to subjugate them, it is an unrealistic portrayal. As if it is all a test and he knows Lightyear will come through.
ckret2: Same concept, even if it is just anti-GA and anti-SC. Let's see, I read this thing somewhere once that explained what I'm trying to say better than I did...
ckret2: There can be a Culture, which basically exists because the people in it say "We should do things this way," or there can be a Counter-Culture, which exists only because people say "I don't like the way Culture does things, so let's do it the opposite way." Basically, a Counter-Culture exists ONLY to oppose a Culture; without the Culture, it is nothing on its own.
ckret2: If Zurg's only motivation is the destruction of the GA and SC, then he is a personal little Counter-Culture, existing only to oppose the Culture.
Blacksteel: Well, the GA isn't a culture; it's a government. And all the planets within its jurisdiction comprise the several different cultures. Zurg has no beef with the individual cultures; only the government.
ckret2: It's not a big difference. How many organizations spring up in the real world merely to hate on a current governmental figure, and then find they've got nothing to do when he leaves office?
Blacksteel: Ahh, but Zurg is one man. xD
Blacksteel: What makes you think that as one man he would go about this in a Counter-Culture [way] when he could be motivated by something exclusively personal, like revenge~?
ckret2: [...] if Option 1 is the ONLY option, then he somehow is motivated to oppose AND ONLY to oppose the GA and the SC.
ckret2: Because once they were gone he would have no motivation.
Blacksteel: Ahh, but in Option 2 you say he wants to actually instil his own government, his own society, yes?
Blacksteel: Plus, there could me more options than just two. As you mentioned earlier, we do not really know Zurg's thinking.
ckret2: YES THAT'S MY POINT WE DON'T KNOW HIS THINKING. I'm going around in circles trying to say that he COULD be following Option 2, not exclusively 1.
ckret2: IF HE IS A ONE-MAN COUNTER-CULTURE, then he's just an oppositional force. But if he wants to be or to make a Culture rather than a Counter-Culture Option 2 is possible.
ckret2: [...] When we started out, didn't you say that it wasn't possible for him to be following option 2?
Blacksteel: What I'm trying to say is, if he is a one-man wrecking ball on a path of self-destruction, then he would take out the government ALONG with himself--as there is no longer a purpose for him to achieve.
ckret2: I've been trying to explain why Option 2 is also possible since you seemed to think he had to be following the destructive Option 1 path and couldn't possibly be following a constructive Option 2 path.
ckret2: *PANICKED FLAIL*
ckret2: And what I'm trying to say is, yes, that is completely true (about the one-man wrecking ball thing), BUT! He doesn't necessarily have to be that wrecking ball on a self-destructive path.
Blacksteel: So are you trying to say that he is following one or the other option? What if there are more?
ckret2: : I'm saying that the other option isn't impossible.
Blacksteel: Constructive path... hmmm...
Blacksteel: Has there ever been any indication of him actually wanting to do something constructive?
Blacksteel: All of his goals always seemed [to be] based on DESTRUCTION...
ckret2: Rather than, say, merely destroying GA and SC--although he certainly wants to do that--he could also want to create an empire based on evilness.
Blacksteel: I've never seen him constructive; I've only ever seen him destroy...
ckret2: Like I said earlier: "Can't start working on his new galactic order until he wipes out the old one."
Blacksteel: That is rather cliché! Dx And I'd like to think that he's more than just cliché. xD
ckret2: All I'm saying is it's possible.
Blacksteel: Certainly possible, but is it plausible?
Blacksteel: He lives in Unfriendly space, he has nobody on his planets except for minions; he is completely antisocial.
Blacksteel: And he's not very charismatic either; that is one key element of a successful dictator.
ckret2: And wanting to destroy the government and legal system of a currently-established government merely out of revenge/hate/whatever *isn't* clichéd?
Blacksteel: I would say it's rather tragic. Perhaps it is somewhat cliché, but tragic.
ckret2: Hey, who says Zurg would be a *successful* dictator? Doesn't mean he can't possibly be motivated to be one.
ckret2: And even if wanting to establish an empire (or any other motivation he may have) IS cliché... well, any cliché can be well-done when in the right author's hands.
ckret2: ... We'd just need to track down the right author. ¬.¬
Blacksteel: If you want to create an empire from the rubble of the Galactic Alliance you would have to be successful.
Blacksteel: And he's failed 3,247 times. Canon fact!
ckret2: If Zurg succeeded in creating his new empire, then yes, he'd have to be successful.
ckret2: Doesn't mean he can't want to do it, try, and fail. Over and over.
ckret2: Like he already does.
Blacksteel: Ah, yes. But the point is he has failed so many times.
Blacksteel: If he's been doing this for close to 3,500 times, there has to be a better motive; most would give up before 100.
ckret2: Then he's not good at taking over OR destroying the Galactic Alliance.
Blacksteel: Then what would his real motive be~?
ckret2: ... wait, I think I have lost the point that was supposed to make.
Blacksteel: *winks*
ckret2: *flails*
ckret2: Okay. You said he's not charismatic, therefore, he can't want to be a dictator.
Blacksteel: He can't be a successful dictator was what I was saying~
ckret2: I said, since he's not charismatic, he would make a bad dictator; however, he could still want to be one.
Blacksteel: That is just... what I said?
ckret2: You said he failed over 3000 times, so he must have a good motivation.
ckret2: I said he must be bad at what he does.
Blacksteel: Now you're catching on~
ckret2: Okay, I think I'm straightened out now.
ckret2: Therefore. What does his failure rate have to do with his motivation?
Blacksteel: Maybe failing IS his motive for something GREATER.
ckret2: He could want to do it and keep trying to do it regardless of his actual competence at it.
ckret2: ... He's a masochist?
Blacksteel: I always thought that all his matches with Buzz were just tests.
Blacksteel: I think he suffers from some sort of insanity.
ckret2: Aha. You're proposing an option 3?
Blacksteel: Yesssss. :>
ckret2: Option 3: Zurg is cuckoo-nutso and has no real motivation besides some sort of crazy delight out of the battles themselves.
ckret2: Like people who buy a video game and never go through the story mode to "win the game," but just do the multiplayer rounds for kicks, forget the plot.
ckret2: Option 3.A: Zurg's cuckoo-nutsoness is specifically focused on Buzz Lightyear. Like people who play multiplayer games just to play against one friend (OR ARCH NEMESIS), and the game's no fun w/o them.
Blacksteel: ...Let's go with an Option 4. Hang on, I'm a-writing it.
Blacksteel: With the fabrication of all of these schemes and constantly going against the Galactic Alliance and Star Command, he is merely testing them, reminding them of his existence, of his strength so they cannot, and will not forget him. Suppose that the reason he is not entirely evil as Evilyear, for example, is because he did taste true evil in the past and was abhorred by it; however, since he had already made a name for himself with these evil atrocities, he had no choice but to continue it, to continue along this self-destructive path of no return.
ckret2: So, what does this make Option 4? He's now evil because he started being evil when he was younger, and then just couldn't find a way to quit?
ckret2: Or, Option 4 = He's evil because he knows there's worse evil out there and actually wants to help keep the GA prepared, even if it means self-destruction?
ckret2: Call those theories 4 and 5, I guess.
Blacksteel: I wasn't going for that, actually. He's not that nice. xD
ckret2: Option 4: Zurg got addicted to evil and now he can't kick the habit.
Blacksteel: Not quite; what I was actually striving for was that he tasted evil, could not handle it, but he had already made a name for himself, and he couldn't back out of it.
ckret2: Option 5-which-is-not-Blacksteel's-theory-but-one-I-just-made-up: He is very secretly a good guy who's keeping the GA prepared in case a REAL baddie shows up.
ckret2: Fascinating, and would be cool to explore and attempt to invent a justification for, but no canon evidence.
ckret2: Ah. So more like, he had a rep to keep up?
Blacksteel: Yes, I would say so.
ckret2: Option 6-which-is-actually-Blacksteel's-I-think: Zurg tried out evil, discovered he didn't like it as much as he thought he would, but chose to stick to it just to save face.
Blacksteel: But if we go with the no canon evidence theory, well none of our theories hold any water whatsoever. xD
ckret2: This is quite true.
ckret2: Option 7-which-is-actually-supported-by-canon: Um. Zurg frequently tries to blow up Star Command, and he fights with Buzz a lot.
ckret2: Have we covered all our bases or are there any more options we can come up with?
Blacksteel: I think we've covered all current options xD
Blacksteel: ...Man, we should post all this somewhere.

[saron]

((I haven't been on in ages but I am coming back! YAY, and you guys were missed.))

1) I am going with the theft of lunch money. Poor Zurg never got to eat his fill!

2) As for this one...it seems like too much work. Maybe I am lazy, but if I had Zurg's resources, I'd try to look for my own kind as opposed to wasting my time on the pitiful GA whose technology and flair is weeeeell below par. (I don't think the GA is bad in any way, but Zurg has to stay advanced to be a step ahead of the game).

And I think Zurg likes to cause chaos in general--never going totoally overboard one way or the other. It's like the galazy is his teeter totter! And Buzz is the kid sitting on the opposite end. LOL image of them as cute little young ones arguing, and Zurg getting off to let Buzz fall, and THAT'S how the rivalry started.
*totally fictious and not being serious about the teeter-totter incident in case you were wondering*

On the plus side, if he really failed 3,247 times, I would lose sight of my original goal too. XD

3) Zurg is not insane, as if he was, it would have been child's play to trap him with some not-so-elaborate scheme, and Dr. Animus would be trying to get to him and make a breakthrough discovery or relevation on alien psychology.

In addition to this, Zurg seems smart enough to keep toying with Star Command with no long-term issues, but that doesn't mean he isn't eccentric (because he truly is. Just look at his footwear! Gotta admit the guy knows how to exercerize with rocket boots).

And I like your metaphor too! This part of your explanation, about the games, is akin to my chaos theory. Nice metaphor!

And I agree with you about it only being fun with Buzz, because what good is being evil if you don't have an archnemesis friend to flaunt your notorious deeds to?

4) I am now picturing Zurg in a rehab center. GO.

I think Zurg liked being evil at first, but not a true evil (like Evilyear) but more akin to the class clown who pulls pranks on a teacher he really dislikes, but has grown to just cause antics only to upset the goody-two-shoes and get into dandy--I mean Eeeeevil confrontations with him. You know who I'm talking about. ^^

5) Oooooh, I actually find this intriguing, but there is the question of what that evil force was, and where the rest of teh "Zurgs" are, unless of course his own race is the evil force and this Zurg is protesting/trying to protect them by pretending to have already conquered this region, or by rallying the forces so they could defend themselves better.

But still, Zurg's race would end up owning the GA. Just look at the damage one alone could do!

6) Zurg tried out evil, and discovered he wasn't that into it? THAT IS GREAT! I think this one is the best theory you had so far. But one question: why did he try it in the first place? Why does anyone try evil and admit that they are so? Was it originally a rage induced action, but then as time moved on he got over his inner anger and just had to keep up the show? If so, what initially caused that anger that made him step into the Big Bad Boy business?

7) Weeeeell, this works if you take things from the surface, but again, why was he evil? I don't think he's TRULY evil, or vying to destroy the GA at all because, well, remember the vegetables experiment?

Yeah, no one truly evil would come up with that wayward scheme, unless they were doing all those silly plots to throw the galaxy off from his true plan. *GASP* Ingenious!

8) For love? What the--NOT VADER. And tough love...sorry, I just don't see it, but it is an interesting outake.

9) This is a great theory for which I applaud you, but I believe if he was truly evil, the GA must have wronged him personally in some way, like maybe destroying his race, or maybe Zurg was some random refugee as his race was scattered to the four corners of the galactic alliance, and he came for help to which everyone immediately labeled him a mosnter (due to horns and red glowing eyes) and tried to capture/kill him, causing Zurg to develop an intense hatred for them and try to cause them chaos to deal with for as long as he shall live; never fully destroying them because then the fun would be over and he'd remember what made him a refugee.

But then he grew to like his job, contacted his own race and found out they were alive and well, and so he decided to continue holdings his reputation because toying with Lightyear is oodles of fun for the whole evil family.

And he'd leave when Buzz hit retirement, but not a nanosecond before!

Who knows? After he leaves, he could say that he did this all to teach them a lesson--stand united or face destruction sort of thing. "Stay united, no civil war, and you won't turn into a refugee like me" sort of thing.

Or maybe he could not have had contact with his race, but after Lightyear leaves for natural causes, he departs to search for remnants of his own past.

((hope you liked the ideas~))

[ckret2]

Dec 10, 2009 8:46:10 GMT -5 saron said:

1) I am going with the theft of lunch money. Poor Zurg never got to eat his fill!

That's the problem! Malnutrition! Malnutrition messed up his brain. Which is why one of his revenge schemes is trying to make children scared of their veggies: so that they can feel his pain! Bwahaha! (/nonsense)

2) As for this one...it seems like too much work. Maybe I am lazy, but if I had Zurg's resources, I'd try to look for my own kind as opposed to wasting my time on the pitiful GA whose technology and flair is weeeeell below par.[/quote

What do you mean by "too much work"? Too much work for Zurg, or too much work for someone who wanted to write it? It depends on his goals. Throwing out another random metaphor (I love metaphors, can you tell?), maybe the whole GA/good VS Zurg/evil thing can be kinda compared to the Cold War capitalism VS communism thing. There were a lot of capitalist countries, and there were a lot of communist contries. But neither side was happy with going "eh, forget it, we've got plenty of nations on our side, we can leave the other side alone." They really wanted to go out and actively convert the other side to their system, even though it made no sense.

So, maybe it'd be "less work" for Zurg to ignore the GA and go do his own thing on other planets, but if he's really driven to promote whatever the heck he wants to promote (the virtues of evil, most likely), then that wouldn't matter.

... And, what do you mean, "I'd try to look for my own kind"? D'you mean Zurg should go look for his own species or something...? Because we don't know what species he is, still. Even if ninety percent of fandom seems to think he's part of some alien race that has nothing to do with the GA, we still don't know that for a fact. He could just as easily be a defector from the GA, and really it's more plausible to imagine that he was in the GA and turned on it than that he drifted in from some distant galaxy, set up shop next to the GA, decided to antagonize it, and then we never hear a thing about his "home" species in canon.

(I don't think the GA is bad in any way, but Zurg has to stay advanced to be a step ahead of the game).

D'you really think he is a step ahead of the game, though? In terms of technology or anything else? Maybe it's just me, but I get the feeling that if the rest of the GA decided to attack HIM first, rather than waiting for him to attack THEM, he wouldn't stand a chance. As it is, they're playing a defensive game--they build up their shields, Zurg builds up his guns, the GA sits and waits until Zurg attacks and then Team Lightyear takes care of the problem before the credits roll. If they actually pursued him instead of letting him go, considering how consistently they beat him when he's got the element of surprise on his side, how well would they do if they had the element of surprise on THEIR side?

I can only think of two canon incidents where something like that happened: when Mira took him on alone in Super Nova, and if she hadn't suddenly burned out then she probably could have got him; and when Nos, XL, and Wirewolf took over the place in like three minutes in Revenge of the Monsters, and Zurg had to wait for Buzz to evict his usurper. I'm not saying that Zurg is in any way a wimp; I just think he might be more of the underdog than he acts like. (And considering how many times he's lost... heh.)

But anyway, that's just me. Canon is open to interpretation; and it's also fairly easy to justify that Zurg IS ahead of the game.

And I think Zurg likes to cause chaos in general--never going totoally overboard one way or the other. It's like the galazy is his teeter totter! And Buzz is the kid sitting on the opposite end. LOL image of them as cute little young ones arguing, and Zurg getting off to let Buzz fall, and THAT'S how the rivalry started.
*totally fictious and not being serious about the teeter-totter incident in case you were wondering*

I thought the definition of "chaos" was "going overboard"? ;D I rather like the teeter-totter incident, though. It would be hilarious to find out if something like that WAS the origin of the rivalry.

On the plus side, if he really failed 3,247 times, I would lose sight of my original goal too. XD

Agreed.

3) Zurg is not insane, as if he was, it would have been child's play to trap him with some not-so-elaborate scheme, and Dr. Animus would be trying to get to him and make a breakthrough discovery or relevation on alien psychology.

In addition to this, Zurg seems smart enough to keep toying with Star Command with no long-term issues, but that doesn't mean he isn't eccentric (because he truly is. Just look at his footwear! Gotta admit the guy knows how to exercerize with rocket boots).

Insane =/= incompetent, y'know. There's a long, long list of successful or semi-successful rulers and dictators who were insane. Look up the story of Ivan IV, the Terrible--I don't even know WHAT he could be diagnosed with, if anything, but he was definitely utterly nuts and yet managed to rise from living in a dungeon to ruling Russia. And historians have been trying to determine for years whether or not Hitler can actually be diagnosed with a particular brand of nuttiness (he's got symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia and of OCD at least, although he didn't demonstrate quite enough symptoms to be formally diagnosed with them). Joan of Arc possibly had schizophrenia. Martin Luther, starter of the Protestant Reformation, almost definitely had OCD.

In fact, some people might say that willingly taking on a whole GALAXY with no good reason--because one's lunch money was stolen? Because they feel like it? Because they just want to cause chaos?--is pretty much the definition of insanity by itself. It'd actually be very hard to prove that Zurg ISN'T cuckoo-nutso based on what we know about him--theory 3 just says that that would be his only motivation.

And again, who said anything about Zurg being alien?

And I like your metaphor too! This part of your explanation, about the games, is akin to my chaos theory. Nice metaphor!

And I agree with you about it only being fun with Buzz, because what good is being evil if you don't have an archnemesis friend to flaunt your notorious deeds to?

Oh, of course, of course. Everything's more fun when you can gloat.

4) I am now picturing Zurg in a rehab center. GO.

Now, how does one do rehab for evil...? What would detox be like, a Barney marathon?

I think Zurg liked being evil at first, but not a true evil (like Evilyear) but more akin to the class clown who pulls pranks on a teacher he really dislikes, but has grown to just cause antics only to upset the goody-two-shoes and get into dandy--I mean Eeeeevil confrontations with him. You know who I'm talking about. ^^

Hey, he DOES only have a 12 in evil. And even if you say he can't be insane, it sounds like you're going pretty close to theory 3 after all: he's got no good reason at all to cause evil, he doesn't really care about winning, he just wants to mess around with the good guys.

5) Oooooh, I actually find this intriguing, but there is the question of what that evil force was, and where the rest of teh "Zurgs" are, unless of course his own race is the evil force and this Zurg is protesting/trying to protect them by pretending to have already conquered this region, or by rallying the forces so they could defend themselves better.

... the other "Zurgs"? Who said anything about other Zurgs?

As for what the other forces are, we've already seen some of them. The Heed came in and almost succeeded in taking over the GA: if Zurg hadn't been around, the GA would already be pacifist because they wouldn't have an enemy, and the Heed would've taken over easily. They would've come in and gone "Peace is good!" and everyone would have said "Yay peace! We've been peaceful for years!" and the Heed would've said "Oh really?" and that'd be the end of the Galactic Alliance.

Anti-Lightyear came in and almost took over the galaxy as well (and true, that WAS Zurg's fault, but still), and if they hadn't been fighting Zurg then Star Command would probably be even more vulnerable, and anti-Lightyear would have won.

So even if theory 5 IS false (which it probably is), it's still true that fighting Zurg keeps the GA in shape. It's easier to fight off new forces of evil when you're already fighting evil on a day-to-day basis.

But still, Zurg's race would end up owning the GA. Just look at the damage one alone could do!

That WOULD be an interesting twist, if Zurg were somehow defending the GA from his own race like you said--although, of course, it'd be difficult to pull off.

... Even so, seriously, why does everyone make Zurg a foreigner? Does he have to be from some far-flung race we've never heard about that could easily wipe out the GA but due to some deus ex machina plot point hasn't? Is it really that difficult to believe that a mix of civilizations that could produce everything we've seen of the GA could also produce someone like Zurg and a world like Planet Z? (/petpeeve)

6) Zurg tried out evil, and discovered he wasn't that into it? THAT IS GREAT! I think this one is the best theory you had so far. But one question: why did he try it in the first place? Why does anyone try evil and admit that they are so? Was it originally a rage induced action, but then as time moved on he got over his inner anger and just had to keep up the show? If so, what initially caused that anger that made him step into the Big Bad Boy business?

Why would they admit it? Well, for one thing, I don't think that evil in BLoSC functions quite the way that evil in the real world functions. In the real world, Good and Evil is kind of like an up-down continuum, where everybody wants to be closer to the top (good) and farther from the bottom (bad). In BLoSC, I think it functions more like a left-right continuum, where the "rightness" or "wrongness" of either side depends more on which side you're on; so, more like a liberal-conservative or capitalist-communist continuum. So whether or not one is "better" than the other depends on personal opinion rather than a universal concensus on Which Side Is Better. It's like to them, "good" and "evil" don't actually mean anything more than "legal" and "illegal." (Of course it's probably a bit more general than that, but still. Something like that.) So saying "I guess good is fine, but I think I'll try out evil" or saying "I prefer evil, not good" may be no different than saying, "I guess being a Red Sox fan is fine, but I think I'll root for the Yankees a while," or saying "I prefer Macs, not PCs." Except you might get arrested for rooting for the Yankees or using a Mac. Which is ridiculous to Yankee fans and Mac users but if the majority of the galaxy prefers the Red Sox and PCs, it makes perfect sense to them. (My metaphors, they are insane. Yes they are. But that sorta makes sense, right?)

So why would he try it? Feel free to make up your own justification if you'd like, this is just a general theory. ;D Maybe evil paid better at the time? ("Hey kid, you can go to your goody-goody burger flipping job at Cosmo's for ten unibucks an hour, or you can be evil and give me the secret recipe for sclurf-n-turf and I'll give you five thousand unibucks." "Sold!") Maybe all the "cool" kids were doing it, like how some kids will join a gang and learn to hotwire cars and stuff just to fit in, and then they grow up to make a business out of stealing cars, stripping them, and selling their parts. Or maybe like you said it WAS rage--this one dude named Bob stole his lunch money when he was a kid, he donned the Evil Emperor guise in order to build a few yellow robot things that he used to kill Bob, but then his name got on the news, he realized he'd never be able to integrate into normal society again, so he moved to another planets and started mass-producing the yellow robots and calling them Hornets. If life gives you lemons...

7) Weeeeell, this works if you take things from the surface, but again, why was he evil? I don't think he's TRULY evil, or vying to destroy the GA at all because, well, remember the vegetables experiment?

Hey hey hey, don't ask me, ask Disney. XD "Theory" 7 isn't really a theory at all. Like I said, #7 is just all that we can conclusively prove is really officially true based on canon evidence alone. We can confirm that he tries to blow up SC. We cannot confirm why: does he think it's fun, does he hate SC, does he just want to worry them? We can confirm that he fights with Buzz. We cannot confirm why: does he want to kill Buzz, does he just want to injure Buzz, does he hate Buzz's guts, does he actually not care about fighting with Buzz but acts like he does since Buzz keeps getting in his way and so they have to fight, does he actually know that Buzz is his son and only fights with him so that Buzz won't figure it out? We can't confirm anything. Theory 7 is nothing. Don't analyze it, just feel free to roll your eyes at Disney's inability to give us more concrete character depth than that.

(And hey, don't knock the vegetable experiment! It was FIENDISHLY CLEVER! ...kidding, of course.)

Yeah, no one truly evil would come up with that wayward scheme, unless they were doing all those silly plots to throw the galaxy off from his true plan. *GASP* Ingenious!

Hey, that can be theory 10! ;D We've actually got no idea whatsoever what Zurg is actually up to; it could be anything from "trying to disable the government of the GA so that he can steal all of the galaxy's shipments of Beanie Babies without anyone noticing" to "trying to cause enough havoc to lure Commander Nebula out of Star Command in order to track him down, catch him, shave off his ridiculous mustache, and release him into the wild again." (No offense intended to Nebula's mustache, but the criminal mind is an inscrutable thing.)

No, neither of those two theories are in any way serious. But still, "We don't actually know what Zurg's up to and it's actually nothing like what it looks like he's up to" can be a valid theory. It's just inventing WHAT that other motive is that'd be the problem.

8) For love? What the--NOT VADER. And tough love...sorry, I just don't see it, but it is an interesting outake.

Why are you apologizing? I don't see it either. But every list of Hypothetical Character Motivations for ANY character in the universe is required to include "S/he's doing it for love." Even if that's rather ridiculous and/or impossible. So I had to stick it in just to get it out of the way.

(And no, no, he's not Vader. Vader doesn't get a snazzy purple skirt, rocket boots, or the right to make up his own words. Zurg has Vader totally beat.)

9) This is a great theory for which I applaud you, but I believe if he was truly evil, the GA must have wronged him personally in some way, like maybe destroying his race, or maybe Zurg was some random refugee as his race was scattered to the four corners of the galactic alliance, and he came for help to which everyone immediately labeled him a mosnter (due to horns and red glowing eyes) and tried to capture/kill him, causing Zurg to develop an intense hatred for them and try to cause them chaos to deal with for as long as he shall live; never fully destroying them because then the fun would be over and he'd remember what made him a refugee.

Who's to say for sure that he's truly evil? (Conversely: who's to say he isn't? Gotta keep all options open.) In fact, I'd think that if he was TRULY evil--as in, he did evil just for evil's sake, the way that good people will do good deeds just for the sake of doing them--he wouldn't need a motivation.

Although I really like that twist to the "Zurg isn't from the GA" backstory: he's not from some super-powerful race, he's from an almost-dead race that he tried to rejoin and/or reassemble, but couldn't due to the GA. And then instead of trying to reconnect with his people or help them to build themselves back up again, he takes out his anger on the GA. Which his race is still living in. Meaning he'd be indirectly hurting his race when his original goal was to find them again. Nice~ (Kind of like a variation on theory 2, then; he had an alternative goal that fighting the GA was just part of, but he lost sight of it over time.

But then he grew to like his job, contacted his own race and found out they were alive and well, and so he decided to continue holdings his reputation because toying with Lightyear is oodles of fun for the whole evil family.

At which point I expect his own race would be rather horrified at him, I'd think. "We lost you for a few years, and here you are trying to BLOW UP ANOTHER GALAXY?! What's WRONG with you, man??" Considering that his original motivation was, y'know, reuniting with his own SPECIES, and he ended up playing around by basically trying to psychologically torture some hero from some culture he had nothing to do with, his people would probably try to catch him and ship him to the funny farm.

And he'd leave when Buzz hit retirement, but not a nanosecond before!

Aww, where's the fun in that? ;D By that time there's sure to be a Buzz Jr. for Zurg to bother. Or else some other rookie that looks promising. I'd have a hard time seeing Zurg just quitting, even if Buzz does retire; and, on the other hand, I'd have a hard time seeing Buzz quit before he breathed his last, not as long as There's Still Evil Out There. *heroic squint*

Who knows? After he leaves, he could say that he did this all to teach them a lesson--stand united or face destruction sort of thing. "Stay united, no civil war, and you won't turn into a refugee like me" sort of thing.

Theory 5?

Or maybe he could not have had contact with his race, but after Lightyear leaves for natural causes, he departs to search for remnants of his own past.

Alternatively, maybe he's been searching for his people all along, when he wasn't busy beating on the Galactic Alliance? And then one day Zurg is just suddenly gone, the GA freaks out, and as it turns out he relocated his own people and decided he'd rather go home?

(A theory 11? Zurg's just doing the Evil Emperor gig to kill time while he's looking for/waiting for something else? Needs more development, though; doesn't stand out too from the other theories yet.)

Hmm, I'm the one leaving the long posts elaborating on all these theories, and it looks like I'm the only one who doesn't even have a personal theory about Zurg's motivation/backstory yet. ... Fun!

[saron]

Alright, having read through your comments and posts, all I can say is that you basically answered yourself through some deliberation or discussion of the ideas you had xD.

And yes, no one said Zurg HAS to be an alien, but I find it a refreshing approach as compared to all the cliches of humans behind a mask, or even aliens behind a mask which isn't such a far stretch away from Vader, for what is a human but alien to sentients of another species?

And lol, the theft of his lunch money made me giggle, as well as other points, but this is what happens when discussing theories right? You offer an opinion, have multiple theories, people discuss and you counter.

I'm sorry I don't have anything quite that insightful to say in response because although you have brought up a number of theories, I feel that in your post-thought discussion in response to my quotes, all that could be said was said. I do like how you have spent so much time on these theories. Perhaps out of the possible choices you could pick your favorite one and work with that. I have full confidence in you!

And if there was a point you truly wanted me to discuss anyways, just tell me when and where, if that's no trouble.

[ckret2]

Dec 12, 2009 11:28:49 GMT -5 saron said:

Alright, having read through your comments and posts, all I can say is that you basically answered yourself through some deliberation or discussion of the ideas you had xD.

Oh no, did I just scare you off? I don't really answer my own questions; I pose a hypothetical question, toss out a few hypothetical answers, and then wait for other people to contribute their hypothetical answers. It's no fun if I'm doing all the work myself!

Dec 12, 2009 11:28:49 GMT -5 saron said:

And yes, no one said Zurg HAS to be an alien, but I find it a refreshing approach as compared to all the cliches of humans behind a mask, or even aliens behind a mask which isn't such a far stretch away from Vader, for what is a human but alien to sentients of another species?

Y'know, it's funny how that works out. I agree that usually the human-in-a-mask or alien-in-a-mask is the big cliche. And yet, in BLoSC fandom, I see the completely-alien-Zurg theory so often, that it's almost more cliched than the other theories. At least, it strikes me that way, since that's what I keep seeing. I guess it depends on the context.

Dec 12, 2009 11:28:49 GMT -5 saron said:

I'm sorry I don't have anything quite that insightful to say in response because although you have brought up a number of theories, I feel that in your post-thought discussion in response to my quotes, all that could be said was said. I do like how you have spent so much time on these theories. Perhaps out of the possible choices you could pick your favorite one and work with that. I have full confidence in you!

I did scare you off. Oops.

I'm still looking for that personal theory! I've got this feeling that it's going to be something that hasn't even been proposed yet. (Although I'm starting to like the idea that he was part of a race that was actually part of the GA, but then for some reason or other it all but disappeared--if not as motivation, then at least as backstory.)

Dec 12, 2009 11:28:49 GMT -5 saron said:

And if there was a point you truly wanted me to discuss anyways, just tell me when and where, if that's no trouble.

XD If there's any point you'd like to discuss, feel free to. And I'll try not to go overboard in my response next time.

[saron]

((You didn't scare me off--it was just a lot to reply to. No worries~))

The nonsense theory about malnutrition amused me, but lets move onto other matters, shall we?


I meant too much work for Zurg. I mean, think about it: if you TRULY wanted to conquer the galaxy, would you focus your attnetion on minor things of chaos, like cloned children or evil vegetables that will make the common sector painfully irregular? (lol, that line xD) If he REALLY wanted to make the galaxy his own, it would be all too easy to take down. Just look at what Evil Buzz Lightyear did. Demolished everything and he was only human. (according to you, Zurg may be human, but sorry, I don't see it. A differing of opinions, yes?) And even Nos-4-A2 came close to ruling the galaxy--it didn't seem too hard to manage now, did it? In defense of this theory, Zurg did come close with the Unimind's corruption, but in a way he allowed there to be room to foil his scheme (by not killing Lightyear off right away.) We could say that as it was a children's show, they were trying to make the character less than frightfully scary, but from my persepctive, Zurg would be rather bored if everyone shared his mindset because there would be no one to best or wrestle with! And he's grown attached to his arch enemy (not in any relationship way, but in the sense that Hey, let's play pester the space ranger! My favorite game).

((Just so you know, I also love Buzz and the other rangers, not just partial to evil. The reason why Zurg is my top character is due to his eccentricities and goofyness. I am partial to charismatic characters. The Blosc writers made them all adorable! I am even growing to sort of like Klerm, if only he weren't such the whiner. xD))

And yes, I love metaphors as well! I like the Cold War idea, but to do that would mean to take Zurg as a legitimate threat, and the way the show portrays him, he's merely a goofball in evil clothing.

For your promoting idea, what is it Zurg is promoting? The idea that evil never wins? I mean look at it: all he does is stir up a little chaos, banter with Buzz, and then get foiled by one particular team of space rangers (the rest either don't do much or lack that kind of skill). If you ask me, Zurg is playing favorites and likes going against Team Lightyear. And the way he acts, it seems to make people actually fear evil, or highly differentiate between that and good, whereas evil doers like Torque and Darkmatter make it look lucrative and cool.

It's like Zurg is dispromoting his own "cause" of evil, while keeping the other villains (who fear him) in relative check. Just imagine if Zurg wasn't there--villains would go running amuck vying for control of the galaxy, leading me to believe that Zurg is a being of balance in the long term.

I did mean he would look for his own species, or rather what happened to them (hence his interest in ruins on Planet X) but looking back it is much more plausible that something terrible befell his race, and he is distracting himself from the loss that is his people. But if it turned out he was merely a defector from the GA...I would feel disappointed somehow, as it would make his story all the more shallow. Just another "I hate my world" schtick, with some impudent fool trying to play revolutionist in a galaxy that was doing more or less alright in the long run.

He could be a refugee from a distant galaxy, but looking back on that, he wouldn't pretend or try to be evil unless somehow he lost his memories and got entirely confused, relying on other people's opinions of him (you look like a monster!) to define who he was, but his lack of a truly evil heart made him more lighthearted than most (think my plot xD).

But, and here is the major conjunction, it would also be plausible that his race was destroyed, and he is trying to pick up the shattered fragments of his life and move onwards by distracting himself with frivolous pursuits, and by mispronouncing vegetables (the way he says it in the English version makes me laugh so hard!)

I do think he is a step ahead of the game. Remember Holiday Time? He had lasers cominf from his hands. HIS HANDS. It was terribly interesting, and he knew immediately how to work the time disrupter technology Santa had without even reading the instructions from the ElfGMs, causing me to think that Zurg actually created the device, loaned it to Santa for reasons unknown, and then wanted it back to steal Lightyear's newspaper!

Oh, here is a question for you: if Zurg had control over time...why didn't he use that to destroy Star Command once and for all in the span of a few nanoseconds? Why didn't he use the Elthusian Death grip on Lightyear when he was frozen in time? Conclusion? Zurg doesn't have it in him to be truly evil and take control of the situation like that. He was just being a Grinch tis all, which in the end made people appreciate the Holiday all the more.

But why don't the GA take the stand to all fight against him? Because they are afraid. They are afraid of what he can do, what he can accomplish if he is pushed far enough, for although Zurg is mostly fun and games, when the chips are down he'll do what he can to defend his planet, his life, and his darling little grubs.

Correction: how consistently Team Lightyear beats him, for he always managed to subdue or get the upper hand on the rest of the galaxy, capturing Tangeans on their home planet, going to Capital Planet without fear of harm, etcetera, etcetera: only his favorite ranger and his team of rookies manage to beat him. (And he expects it.)

Zurg: Ahhh, Lightyear, I've been expecting you.
It's part of the procedure! If you don't believe me, look at the Blosc comics! They have it down to an art (Mondays are scheming days, and Fridays are evil plot days when Buzz comes in to save the day.) If you don't have the comics ask Eez for links. They are gold xD. And they also show Zurg has ahandheld matter transporter device that allows him to pop to whatever location he desires. If that isn't far ahead from the rest of the galaxy's technology, I don't know what is.

The point is Mira was burned out, and Zurg planned it so he knew the number of seconds it would take. Who honestly can count down to one when their advesary suddenly collapses? He was toying with ranger Nova, getting her to almost beat him and then BAM, she's out. Zurg was chuckling, remember? And completely confident, so he knows what he's doing.

As for Nos, maybe he just wanted to watch Lightyear help him for a change and get rid of the robotic trash, paralleling how Klerm watched him and Lightyear battle. It was for kicks, and Zurg was cheering and booing like any old fan of a football game.

Zurg: Bless you Lightyear. Wait. He's losing? He's doing this just to spite me, I KNOW IT.

Once again, gold. And if Zurg wasn't ahead of the game, he is the most insanely lucky person in the universe, but luck can only go so far. So I vote for him being eons ahead of them. He is a one-man army after all--grubs and brainpods are just technicians and Hornets don't count as they are terribly easy to take down. If it was any other person, the GA would have successfully taken him down ages ago, but as it is Zurg, they fail in that apsect.

Btw, Zurg seems more of a business man to me than a conquerer of worlds, but I'm sure he has a couple of planets under his belt for supplying his resources, but no slaves. I have never seen him hold a being against their will just to serve him (Mira is not counted because she was held for all of a day and was not forced to scrub his boots, polish the floor--she was merely acting as bait and a battery).

Chaos can be seen as going overboard I suppose, but in small doeses it just balances out excessive order represented by Lightyear. And yes, I love the teeter totter incident.

Quote:3) Zurg is not insane, as if he was, it would have been child's play to trap him with some not-so-elaborate scheme, and Dr. Animus would be trying to get to him and make a breakthrough discovery or relevation on alien psychology.

In addition to this, Zurg seems smart enough to keep toying with Star Command with no long-term issues, but that doesn't mean he isn't eccentric (because he truly is. Just look at his footwear! Gotta admit the guy knows how to exercerize with rocket boots).

I think Zurg's true goal is to keep himself busy, but OCD is not a definition of insanity. I have friends with the disorder and they are perfectly normal people--if anything they are more like Buzz, but to a lesser degree. And Zurg does seem witty and eccentric, but not insane, as if he were insane he'd have no pattern and turn himself in willy nilly, or try to join a party and dance with Booster as a partner. *a certain fanfic comes to mind* And Hilter was cold and calculating. If anything he was more of a sociopath, which is the cold hard lack of empathy and drive to do what suits your purposes best. Zurg does not seem to be that type--I mean come on, he could have destroyed the cloned rangers who vexed him to no end, but instead he acted like an overwhelmed single parent. He fails at all things children xD.

Actually, I find it hard to believe he is trully off the deep end just because of how smooth his getaways are, how carefully everything is planned, the extensiveness of his plots that seem to be designed only so one man understands them.
Buzz: I got Zurg's pen!!!
Those two spend too much time around each other, so they both can know what the other one is thinking! Just like the time Zurg tricked Lightyear into thinking he was in the future and spilling all Star Command's secrets. That plan was just diabolical, and required patience and clear thinking--not insanity.

The rehab thing was only a joke, pertaining to come comment you said about him being addicted to evil and going through withdrawal if he tried to stop. Think of the show Intervention.

He does have a 12 in evil. He does only want to mess with the good guys. He does have the means to obliterate the galaxy (he could transport planets to any dimension that he wanted! Tell me that isn't advanced). But he doesn't. This leads me to believe that there is a more complicated motivation than meets the eye.

I said something about other Zurgs xD. Sorry, I just have the image of him as an alien, so it slips out from time to time in my writing. Anyway, yes, Zurg does seem to keep them on their toes, which is perfectly good for balance--defend yourself, but retain the ability to relax, which a certain commander fails at which is why they sent him to Rhizome.

And Evil Lightyear was brought into their plane of existence by Zurg who transported him through dimensions. If Zurg wasn't toying with the time space continuum, none of that would have happened.

... People make Zurg a foreigner because we grow tired of Vader-like parodies or just another man in a mask. And you get more creative license this way! And I don't recall ever seeing a race that resembled Zurg in the slightest. Just look at his mouth! That in itself is far removed from anything seen in the GA.

Yes, your metaphor does make sense. I'm just saying Zurg is the first person I've heard openly admit he is evil time and time and time again (excluding Evil Lightyear of course who is just plain sadistic. He decorates his place with skulls!)

Evil paying beter...that sounds like Warp Darkmatter, not Zurg. And it sounds a tad too shallow for Zurg if he has the same motivation as an evil henchman. If money was his sole objectibe, he may as well have gone into advertizing and be done with it. And I don't think he'd be so petty as to kill someone for taking his lunch money. I mean who would want his lunch? He probably has protein shakes or something. *shrugs*

Yes, it was fiendeshly clever! xD

It would be troll dolls--not beanie babies. (canon fact lol), but still, something about the episodes make me think that Zurg is a tad deeper than some of the theories you have proposed. Mainly the Unimind incident. Did you hear the subtle screams? Sense his sudden pain concealed? It could have been done for dramatic effect, but still...I suppose no one will rightfully know.

Quote:8) For love? What the--NOT VADER. And tough love...sorry, I just don't see it, but it is an interesting outake.


Yes, Zurg DOES beat Vader, with style~!

But a lack of motivation leads to a lack of forethough and leads to a lack of substance plotwise. That is why I like meaty plots that I can sink my teeth into.

Although I really like that twist to the "Zurg isn't from the GA" backstory: he's not from some super-powerful race, he's from an almost-dead race that he tried to rejoin and/or reassemble, but couldn't due to the GA. And then instead of trying to reconnect with his people or help them to build themselves back up again, he takes out his anger on the GA. Which his race is still living in. Meaning he'd be indirectly hurting his race when his original goal was to find them again. Nice~ (Kind of like a variation on theory 2, then; he had an alternative goal that fighting the GA was just part of, but he lost sight of it over time.

It is a great twist, isn't it?

Maybe his own race left behind didn't even realize where Zurg was or what he had become, hence no one sent any convoys to bring him back. Or, and here is the big OR, they didn't want him to return, didn't wish for him to be among his own kind. He could have been ostracized for failing in a civil war, or breaking some law, or just being hated for what he was, so the entire race that was left behind agreed for no further contact.

Zurg may have been a free thinker they were glad to be rid of, or part of an unsuccessful monarchy after which they had formed a republic or communist colony.

At the rate Ozma and Buzz are going at, there will be no Buzz Jr. And maybe that's a good thing, because Zurg would be a little miffed with replacing Buzz.
Zurg: You..you can't retire! We still need to..to..have my latest scheme foiled!
Old Buzz: These old bones aren't what they used to be, and I have passed my time...
Zurg: I am threatening the galaxy's prune supply.
Old Buzz: You FIEND! *out of retirement*

Old Buzz is going to lighten up and be on some intergalactic cruise ship somewhere playing chess with a disguised red and yellow-eyed alien. I KNOW THIS. xDDD Ok, not really, but that would be a splendid way to retire.

If Zurg did just get up and leave to see his own people, I'm sure he'd be overcome with joy for finding them, and get all sentimental about the galaxy that helped him retain his sanity and blow off some steam, causing the GA to freak out even more.
Zurg: You guys...*sniff*...I don't hate you after all! *waves*
GA:.....what.

Zurg needs to fight the galaxy to blow off time before Discworld comes floating on the back of four elephants standing atop a giant turtle swimming towards them, after which he will join the other creatures in Discworld and be happy once more!
*that was totally joke-related, but I love Terry Pratchet's Discworld series. Try reading it sometime--the whole thing is hilarious :>*

Yes, a lot of fun!
And there is your response. Toodles~

[eez]

Holy pulsars, I do believe Saron and I share a mindink! *wiggles imaginary antenna and connects with her noosphere*

Everything Saron said I pretty much hold confidence in, and for the Unimind....well, I figured that the Unimind reflected the mind of whoever touched it, leading to the cries of agony and purple hue; thus, Zurg could be in mental anguish and misery, yet not show it--that's what the eye-candy of the Unimind is for~!

And also, I must say that over the decade of BLoSC, I have seen more human Zurgs, more masks, and perhaps a few robots (still iffy on that), than genuine full-deal alien Zurgs--Saron's and mine, respectively (Steel might be working on hers XD).

........................I wanted to say more but Saron took it all.

CURSE YOU, SAROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!